View Full Version : Star Trek copies Babylon 5 yet again!
OmahaStar
08-01-2006, 01:21 PM
From Trek Today (http://www.trektoday.com/news/010806_01.shtml)
By Michelle
August 1, 2006 - 7:52 PM
For the first time, bound volumes of scripts from all five live Star Trek shows plus the animated series will be released in limited edition printings to celebrate the franchise's 40th anniversary.
Roddenberry.com has teamed with CafePress.com to produce bound volumes of original Star Trek TV scripts to be released each month over the next three years. Special edition merchandise including rare photos of Gene Roddenberry and autographs from his son Eugene Roddenberry, Jr. will accompany each volume.
The books for the first season will be sold prior to December 31st and will include limited edition anniversary cover art. The first volume, containing the script for the original Star Trek pilot episode "The Cage", will be available as of August 8th and will be accompanied by a new foreword by Roddenberry, Jr.
After "The Cage", the first volumes of original series scripts will be released in September. All books will arrive shrink-wrapped for protection.
For ordering information, visit CafePress.com.
Gee, wonder (http://b5scripts.com/) where they got that idea (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techinnovations/2006-06-04-print-on-demand_x.htm)?
Joe Nazzaro
08-01-2006, 01:28 PM
I'm sure it's nothing more than a coincidence (cough, cough, Deep Space Nine). To tell you the truth, if I was a writer from another genre show and read the USA Today story about how much money was to be had by publishing scripts, I'd be digging my scripts out of the attic as well.
Franky, the thing that interests me is which scripts are going to be published, and which versions. Many of the first-season scripts were reportedly subjected to arbitrary rewrites by people such as Roddenberry's lawyer who I don't think was a member of the WGA. So under the separation of rights deal, the individual writers should be able to publish their original scripts, which could well be very different than what ultimately aired. So this could all get very interesting, especially when you consider how many first-season scripts were released under pseudonyms- some of Tracy Torme's episodes come to mind, but I think there may have been others.
Interesting point, Joe. In fact, the reason I first got interested in scripts in the first place was from noticing that there were often substantial differences between the James Blish episode short story books and what showed up on my TV. It was mentioned that the stories were based on scripts so I wanted to find out what that was all about. Much much later I learned that there were often many rewrites done by...apparently anybody who wanted to.
Oh, and it seems to me that at least the TNG scripts were published in the past.
(sung to the tune of "Where angels go, trouble follows":
Where B5 goes, Star Trek follows...
Jan
frulad
08-01-2006, 05:03 PM
The only TREK episode script that I'm interested in owning - Harlan Ellison's original version of "The City On The Edge Of Forever" - has already been published. And is sitting on my bookshelf.
Can't think of any other script I'm that interested in reading...
Joe Nazzaro
08-01-2006, 06:31 PM
I was just looking at some of the pseudonyms used in the early seasons of TNG: Hide and Q is credited to Roddenberry and C.J. Holland, which is actually Maurice Hurley because of Roddenberry's rewrites. Tracy Torme put The Royale under Keith Mills and Terry Devereaux for Manhunt. Plus since many of the early TNG scripts are credited to two or three different writers, it would be interesting to see how they secure the rights from all of these writers, particularly if sme of them don't want their bastardized shooting scripts published. Maybe, like Ellison, they'd prefer people to see their original drafts.
I wonder just how knowledgeable some writers are about their rights. When asked (via his blog) about publishing his B5 scripts recently, PAD replied that since he didn't own the copyright, he didn't think he could do so without making some kind of deal with WB. The questioner responded with the info about the WGA Separation of Rights but there was no response. Now if somebody as experienced as PAD can think that, one wonders about others.
Heck, there's no trouble at all finding Trek scripts online, either. I wonder why anybody'd want to buy the script books--for Roddenberry Jr.'s autograph? He wasn't even born when TOS was on, for Pete's sake!
Jan
frulad
08-02-2006, 05:46 AM
I wonder just how knowledgeable some writers are about their rights. When asked (via his blog) about publishing his B5 scripts recently, PAD replied that since he didn't own the copyright, he didn't think he could do so without making some kind of deal with WB. The questioner responded with the info about the WGA Separation of Rights but there was no response. Now if somebody as experienced as PAD can think that, one wonders about others.
Yeah, that was me in PAD's blog's most recent open question thread. Kind of frustrating that we want to give him money, he's unaware that he can take it from us. :cool:
Hopefully he read your response, Frulad. I'd hoped to try to meet Larry DiTillio at Comic-Con to ask about his scripts but wasn't able to.
There are a couple of TNG scripts I'd like to see-'Inner Light' and 'Darmok' for instance. Of course I found them online almost immediately. I've bookmarked them to read this weekend. I doubt if I'd care enough for them to watch for the one-month window that they'll be available, though.
Jan
Satai Delenn
08-02-2006, 06:44 AM
Personally it doesn't bother me if the scripts make money for them why not ?Although I won't be buying them I found a site probably the same one that Jan found and read all the ones I wanted too.So I won't be wasting my money I have read what I want already.
frulad
08-02-2006, 08:40 AM
Upon further reflection, I would be interested in reading some of those scripts that were developed back in the 80s when POaramount was going to launch a fourth network with a Trek revival as its flagship show. When the idea was abandoned, the pilot was reworked into Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
I have a copy of a two-parter that saw the Enterprise going deep into the Klingon space over some political thing or another. Quite a good read as I recall.
I'd be interested in reading some of the others. (Though I think a few of them were later dug out and reworked into Next generation scripts due to some writer's strike, if memory serves...)
OmahaStar
08-02-2006, 08:49 AM
Upon further reflection, I would be interested in reading some of those scripts that were developed back in the 80s when POaramount was going to launch a fourth network with a Trek revival as its flagship show. When the idea was abandoned, the pilot was reworked into Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
I have a copy of a two-parter that saw the Enterprise going deep into the Klingon space over some political thing or another. Quite a good read as I recall.
Those are from Star Trek: Phase II, which was set to go into production in the mid 70s.
I'd be interested in reading some of the others. (Though I think a few of them were later dug out and reworked into Next generation scripts due to some writer's strike, if memory serves...)
"The Child" - which opened season 2 - and "Devil's Due" were the two that I'm aware of which were re-written and became TNG scripts.
Dr Maturin
08-02-2006, 09:43 AM
Upon further reflection, I would be interested in reading some of those scripts that were developed back in the 80s when POaramount was going to launch a fourth network with a Trek revival as its flagship show. When the idea was abandoned, the pilot was reworked into Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
I have a copy of a two-parter that saw the Enterprise going deep into the Klingon space over some political thing or another. Quite a good read as I recall.
I'd be interested in reading some of the others. (Though I think a few of them were later dug out and reworked into Next generation scripts due to some writer's strike, if memory serves...)
This may help you out:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0671568396/104-4481010-7194345?v=glance&n=283155
I believe there is a full draft script for the pilot and maybe some others. I do know that there are episode descriptions.
frulad
08-02-2006, 12:53 PM
Just remembered that some of the test footage for the aborted series showed up on the ST:TMP DVD.
Dr Maturin
08-02-2006, 01:16 PM
Just remembered that some of the test footage for the aborted series showed up on the ST:TMP DVD.
That truly was an awful movie.
Karachi Vyce
08-03-2006, 07:09 PM
The only TREK episode script that I'm interested in owning - Harlan Ellison's original version of "The City On The Edge Of Forever" - has already been published. And is sitting on my bookshelf.
Can't think of any other script I'm that interested in reading...
And that was published years ago, before the Bab 5 scripts being available. So wouldn't this be Trek ripping off Bab 5 ripping off Trek?
I've got that particular scriptbook, BTW. Not really because I'm a big fan of Trek, or a fan of scriptbooks. Harlan Ellison is just one of my favorite authors of all time and a major inspiration for me. Plus he's a surly old bastard, which I can admire.
Joe Nazzaro
08-03-2006, 08:13 PM
I think the point of contention is not who's done a script book first (and BTW, I don't count Ellison's City on the Edge of Forever Book in this discussion anyway, because it's not so much a script book as a book that has a script in it, as well as tons of other stuff). The point is that apparently the Star Trek scripts will now be published as Cafe Press publishing-on-demand editions, using the publishing paradigm created by JMS for the B5 scripts. On that point, there doesn't seem to be an awful lot of doubt.
Shr'eshhhhhh
08-04-2006, 01:01 AM
That truly was an awful movie.
I thought the Slow Motion Picture was the best Star Trek movie (particularly the fancy pants directors cut version).
It was visually epic, the characters were drawn a bit larger than in their TV versions and the story (though pinched from several episodes of the original series) at least touched on classic science fiction themes.
The music was one of Jerry Goldsmith's best (and that's saying something) and Wise's direction was spot on.
The one thing that really lets it down is the script. Lines like "It fell into what they used to call a black hole." should never be written let alone make it into a major movie release (unless the words irony are lit up in bright blue neon).
But my opinions on Star Trek movies has always been against the grain.
Everyone seems to like First Contact but I thought it was a shameless rip-off of Aliens.
vacantlook
08-04-2006, 02:16 AM
Everyone seems to like First Contact but I thought it was a shameless rip-off of Aliens.
There are moments in First Contact that I enjoyed, but the nearly non-existant space battle with the Borg really bothers me. And I'm not exactly fond of the whole idea of the Borg queen feels cheap. Like with the rest of the NextGen movies, there are parts I like and parts that I really just don't.
Dr Maturin
08-04-2006, 06:45 AM
First Contact and The Undiscovered Country are tied as my favorites. The former has that mix of blockbuster action fun and Trek that makes it fast-paced, funny and true to the name. The latter was just a great movie period. Christopher Plummer as a bald Klingon quoting Shakespeare? That's brilliant. That movie gets my adrenaline going. It's literally nailbiting.
And this line from Kirk is awesome:
"FIRE!"
Shr'eshhhhhh
08-04-2006, 06:28 PM
I liked "The Undiscovered Country" too. (Iman with a cigar had nothing to do with it I assure you)
I only wish they had kept to the original idea of having Saavik working with the conspirators instead of Valeris. And the whole bit with the launch out of space dock was very wonky indeed. Just look at the black engineer chappy's face (behind Scotty)...quite hilarious.
The extended version with the Scooby Doo ending is a giggle too.
It's a shame they didn't throw the sort of money they did on the directors version of the slow motion picture at "The Final Frontier" it started well but they ran out of cash.
At least they had Jerry Goldsmith doing the music.
The music for "The Voyage Home" proves what a bad score can do to a half good movie.
vacantlook
08-05-2006, 01:42 AM
The Undiscovered Country is also my favorite of all the Star Trek films.
(Iman with a cigar had nothing to do with it I assure you)
Iman is wicked cool. I've always thought that she would have been awesome as Storm in the X-Men films.
Joe Nazzaro
08-05-2006, 06:10 AM
At least she would have had the right accent to play an African super-heroine!
Dr Maturin
08-05-2006, 08:10 PM
It should be noted that the Special Collector's Editions of the films are all $10 right now.
Shr'eshhhhhh
08-06-2006, 02:19 PM
I liked (and purchased) the special editions of one and two because the films themselves were either totally new cuts or rarely seen versions.
Not having a fancy home cinema set up, I don't need Dobly 5.1 etc and though the documentaries can be fun I don't want to but the films all over again just for the extras.
Now I'd pay good money for Star Trek 5 with the rockmen attacking Kirk, or Insurrection with the nudey Jonathan Frakes being menaced by the alien made of velcro...(nah that was just a weird cheese dream)
The Cage is on sale now. (http://www.cafepress.com/roddenberry.65071405)
One script (albeit a two-hour pilot). 95 pages. $24.99. Featuring a family photo and a quote.
And people said that the B5 script books are expensive. At that rate JMS's books should be at least $88 or maybe $100 given that he actually writes new material for each one.
Color me underwhelmed. There may still be a few of these I'll pick up out of nostalgia or curiosity but not many. I just don't see any value being given.
Jan
Satai Delenn
08-08-2006, 04:59 AM
WOW that's all the extra's they get for 24.99 .Glad I am not buying any.
frulad
08-08-2006, 05:51 AM
If I were a diehard Trek fan, I would feel hardpressed to defend the franchise against the accusations of just milking the fans for every cent they can in the face of something like this...
It seems strange to me. I mean, they're *already* selling scripts on their site for about $12 (very reasonable) so I figured there'd be at least something to make this more special.
Does anybody know if Eugene Roddenberry does anything for a living besides being Gene's sone?
Jan
Garibaldi's Hair
08-08-2006, 08:01 AM
I have just received an e-mail from Cafepress announcing the launch of this and I notice that they are also advertising some limited edition merchandise, consisting of ... Gene Roddenberry (note ... not Star Trek or character) quotes on t-shirts, mugs, mouse pads ... etc.
Sounds pretty familiar too.
And, I can't escape the feeling that this thing is all about Gene Roddenberry, rather than Star Trek itself.
Having said all that, they are offering some nice t-shirts with piccies of the Enterprise on, and other such things, and it would be cool for WB to give permission for JMS to do some Cafepress stuff with the official B5 logo on, and some of the ships/characters to go with the quotes.
I would definitely buy me some of that!
Don't forget the limited edition prints. :rolleyes:
Jan
Garibaldi's Hair
08-08-2006, 08:07 AM
Oh yeah ... how could I forget those, :rolleyes:
nottenst
08-08-2006, 01:51 PM
STar Trek:TNG and DS9 put a whole bunch of their scripts as well as previews for their episodes on CD-ROM quite a number of years back. So, some people already have them in that format.
See this usenet thread (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated/browse_frm/thread/866962fe036af8a6/01178e216ae30b51?lnk=gst&q=scripts+cd-rom&rnum=1#01178e216ae30b51) for some comments at the time.
Neil
B5sweepsfan
08-10-2006, 07:50 AM
After Andromeda, I'm surprised that Majel isn't more involved in this. Don't get me wrong, I've always liked Majel. But it rubbed me a bit wrong that she never referred to herself as Majel Roddenberry until after he passed.
She WAS around during ST:TOS, she makes much more sense as writing forewords than Jr.
I'm also fairly sure she wasn't asked!!
Anyone seen or heard from her recently?
It would have been interesting for Majel to write something for this first book since she was Number One.
Jan
They've made available the first two volumes of the Star Trek script books.
Each one looks to have five scripts, a special introduction by Eugene Roddenberry, a Roddenberry family photo and a Roddenberry quote. All for the $39.99 price. No sign of discounts during the first week or anything like that in the announcement emails either.
I'm still wondering how they are handling doing the scripts. By the way Joe describes the rules, the individual screenwriter can sell their scripts. Unless there is some special exception for Star Trek, I'd think that the original screenwriters of these episodes would be involved or hopefully will at least be getting some sort of payment.
Maybe a good question for Joe?
Lee
Hard to tell exactly what rights the studio might have regarding scripts since, afaik, the copyright holder is the studio. It's the WGA Separation of Rights provision that allows the writers to sell their scripts *as* scripts. That doesn't necessarily mean that the studio couldn't do it also.
Edit: I just took a look a the books. They're using an image of the Enterprise on the cover, something that JMS has said that he's not able to do with B5 images.
My questions are more along lines that JMS wouldn't be able to answer, I don't think. I'd like to know how/why the *Roddenberry* family got the right to do this. Could it be through a license with Paramount? I don't know of any way to find out.
One thing of note, though. I've now seen both Peter David and D.C. Fontana unsure that they could publish their own B5 scripts without permission from WB, since WB holds the copyright. I spoke to Dorothy Fontana about it myself at the recent WorldCon. She seemed rather interested in the idea so I sent her info after the con about what JMS has been doing. With luck the idea will spread.
Jan
Dr Maturin
09-08-2006, 12:39 PM
It's simple. JMS owns the rights to his stuff and at least some or all of the ST writers do not. That, or they do and they're getting royalties.
Except that the WGA Separation of Rights provision is a part of the union contract that applies to all signatories of the WGA. JMS only has the right to publish his scripts as scripts. He cannot change them into (for example) short stories without a license from WB.
Was the union contract the same back 40 years ago? No way of telling, I don't think. I didn't mention the Trek script books to Ms. Fontana, either.
Jan
Dr Maturin
09-08-2006, 01:25 PM
I hate those Hollywood unions.
FuryPilot
09-08-2006, 04:43 PM
I hate those Hollywood unions.
In this case, why? It is the union deal that allows JMS to sell his B5 scripts.
FP
And the aswer to Lee's question is:
Title: Re: ATTN JMS: Star Trek Script Books - Non roddenbery Scripts
Author: jmsatb5@aol.com
Date: 8 Sep 2006 23:01:50 -0700
Message-ID: <1157781710.481890.325500@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups. com>
sftv wrote:
> Seeing as the first volumes of the Star Trek Script Books are now
> available, it has brought some questions to mind.
>
> They appear to be planning to include scripts of all of the episodes,
> not just the ones Rodenberry wrote. I would assume that if they are
> selling scripts by other writers, they would need to make arrangements
> with them. Or is there some special arrangement for 1960's scripts or
> Star Trek in particular (seeing as Majel has long been selling
> individual scripts).
>
> I would think that Harlan Ellison would like some say if they will be
> including "City on the Edge of Forever" in an upcoming edition or David
> Gerrold when they get to "The Trouble with Tribbles".
>
> As compared to the B5 script books, there isn't much beyond the scripts
> (five per book) other than an introduction by Eugene Rodenberry, a
> family photo and a Rodenberry quote. There also appears to be no
> discounts available like the B5 Scripts have during the first week of
> availability.
>
> Lee Whiteside
> SFTV.org
Which kind of goes to the core of what I wanted to do with the B5
script books, to make the maximum amount of information and the maximum
number of scripts available for as little as possible. This way, when
all is said and done, you have a real sort of holographic snapshot of
the making of the show from pretty much every angle.
To the larger question above...it's my understanding -- and I could be
wrong, but this is what I've heard -- that the Roddenberry estate made
a deal with the writers to sell their scripts some time ago. Whether
that was a one-time payment, or there's some sort of residual, I don't
know, but there does seem to have been permissions involved.
Speaking of...I plan to get volume 9 done and up for the last week of
this month. It's been kind of crazy of late, as noted earlier, but I'm
coming into a smooth patch for a bit where I can catch up on that and
some Marvel work. The last draft of Changeling has gone in to the
studio, so we're now awaiting a decision concerning
production...Touchstone has responded very well to the Borrowed Lives
pilot script...and I just got back from two days in New York meeting
with the director and producers on the next feature that I'll be
writing for Universal (one of them being Akiva Goldsman, a very nice
man). Also got to meet Will Smith in the production offices of I Am
Legend while I was there. Also seemed like a very nice fellow.
jms
Jan
Dr Maturin
09-09-2006, 01:40 PM
In this case, why? It is the union deal that allows JMS to sell his B5 scripts.
FP
Too many rules and too much control over the goings on in the 'Wood. I like that people like Lucas and Rodriguez told them to fuck off.
Karen
09-20-2006, 12:06 PM
I got an e-mail from Cafe Press today letting me know that they have 2 Trek scriptbooks for sale and also mechandise with Gene Roddenberry sayings on them. From the e-mail:
"Share Gene Roddenberry's vision with this quotable merchandise. This merchandise is limited-edition, and reflects the quotes inside the volumes launching monthly. Merchandise will remain up for one month only."
Maybe JMS should ask for some sort of royalty based on them using all of his ideas.
Dr Maturin
09-20-2006, 12:48 PM
Maybe JMS should ask for some sort of royalty based on them using all of his ideas.
You do know that JMS wasn't the first to do it, right? CafePress is all about that kind of thing.
Umm...rather obviously Cafe Press does print on demand, right? And Roddenberry has been selling scripts, single scripts in regular script format, for years.
The comments are due to the similarities of the offerings, LiM. Until JMS came along, Roddenberry never offered books of multiple scripts with photos and quotes. 'Scuse me...*A* photo and *A* quote in each. It's possible that they intended to do exactly what they're doing even before JMS's project appeared on the front page of USA Today's Money section. The timing seems a little odd, though, especially considering the similarities.
Jan
Dr Maturin
09-20-2006, 01:59 PM
All I am saying is that Karen's comment -- made in jest, surely -- isn't valid because CafePress has always done what they have done. You can't own an idea...
Karen
09-20-2006, 02:07 PM
Let's see, JMS uses Cafe Press to publish his scripts in book form and also starts putting his quotes on merchandise through this same company. ST, who have been using big publishing companies and big corporations for merchandise all of a sudden decides to go with Cafe Press to do the same thing that JMS is doing. Sorry LiM, the timing is all wrong. They have definitely taken his ideas and run with them. I like the ST universe. I just wish they would admit that JMS had a great idea and they are following his lead. I think he should get a little credit (well, a lot of credit). The only difference that I can see, and this is only my opinion, is that JMS is doing this for us fans and ST is doing it for the profit. With all the extras we get in the B5 scripts without paying a whole lot more shows the different directions these guys are coming from. Like I say, just my opinion.
Karen
09-20-2006, 02:10 PM
All I am saying is that Karen's comment -- made in jest, surely -- isn't valid because CafePress has always done what they have done. You can't own an idea...
Can't own an idea? Someone better tell Harlan Ellison! There's whole sections of law devoted to "owning ideas". Copyrights, patents, etc. Granted this idea is more generalized, but please try to keep a little perspective here.
Dr Maturin
09-20-2006, 02:50 PM
Can't own an idea? Someone better tell Harlan Ellison! There's whole sections of law devoted to "owning ideas". Copyrights, patents, etc. Granted this idea is more generalized, but please try to keep a little perspective here.
Yeah, it'd be a great idea to let whoever invented the automobile be the only manufacturer, or the first oil driller to be the sole supplier...
If JMS wishes, he could take a personal satisfaction in the Roddenberry's estate capitalizing upon a good idea, but I wouldn't gloat about it. One would look like an ass for doing so.
And there is nothing wrong with profit. I'd charge as much as I could without gouging.
offload
04-09-2007, 08:57 PM
Looking at the current world situation, why couldn't there be a starship story series which has no offensive weapons, which tries to solve conflicts, and combat evil without disintegrating them ? I know, Farscape kind of went that way, but in a Gene Roddenberry flavored Universe, I thought the TIN MAN episode (in STTNG) kind of started a tale, of a organic starship that had the ability to defend itself, but was also a working partner and mentor to beings who were trying to be explorers. Another plot ingredient, which is also a positive is rescue workers ( think firemen/EMT's in space) possibly from a deceased civilization. They might have cybernetic implants, due to injuries, as stop gap measures, to keep them functional (think white garmented Borg plus some sort of Agape like philosophy ) who still want to "do good" in the cosmos. Somehow we have to find solutions that the Gene Roddenberry, looking for better meaning, non-materialistic future can exist out there, without quantum torpedoes and phasers. Those of you who read more S/F than I do may have seen something like this ?
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