Bullet Points

[Jan]

There's a preview of the first issue of the 5-part mini "Bullet Points" (http://www.popcultureshock.com/bullet-points-1-preview-2/40582/) that's due in stores next Wednesday.

I've heard JMS describe it a couple of times and wasn't really sure that I'd be interested. I don't really know much about Capt. America or some of the other characters it'll be touching on. After seeing the preview, though, I'm definitely going to be checking it out.

Jan

[frulad]

If your local comic shop participates in Diamond's preview program they should have a copy of the whole issue in their store today.

[Jan]

Here's an interview with JMS (http://atomiccomics.blogspot.com/2006/11/qa-with-j-michael-straczynski.html) talking about 'Bullet Points' which comes out today.

Jan

[SmileOfTheShadow]

Here's an interview with JMS (http://atomiccomics.blogspot.com/2006/11/qa-with-j-michael-straczynski.html) talking about 'Bullet Points' which comes out today.

Jan


Oh my: "It's a great change-up, and I'm starting to wonder if this sort of thing might be more my bag than an ongoing series, though I have to say I'm massively enjoying writing Thor at the moment."

I realllly hope he doesn't drop Spidey or Thor.

[phazedout]

rang 3rdplace (one of my fave local comic-book stores) and they have it :D although they do want 4 euro for it :confused: :eek: .
As a point of interest, how much is it over there?
Phaze
on the "just wanting to know how much I'm effectively paying for shipping it here" ID

[Jan]

Nice that they got it over there so quickly. It's $2.99 here.

Jan

[frulad]

It's going for the standard $2.99 that Marvel charges for most books. However, there's freaking 26 pages of ads versus the 22 pages of story!!!! F you, Marvel!

[phazedout]

I see that.
Why am I paying 4 euro (effectively about $6 or twice the price) for a comic that costs $2.99? I'm going to ring around the (3) comic-book stores and find out how much they are chargimg for it. If it's 4 euro all round then I'll wait for the trade.
Phaze
on the "slightly miffed at rip-off prcing" ID
replying to oneself is bad nettequitte so I'm editing this message. Yep it seems I got it cheap, the otehr tow stores wanted 4.15 and 4.25.
I'm sufficiently miffed by this that I'll post soemthing in the newsgroup. In addition, rabid fan though I am of JMS's work, I'll be waiting for the trade.
Phaze

[Jan]

If you actually want to make a difference, let the stores or the suppliers know and ask what importation or Customs fees they have to pay. Marvel, or especially JMS can't do a thing. From what I've read, Marvel is just as happy whichever you buy.

Jan

[Garibaldi's Hair]

Interesting ... I am in the UK rather than Ireland, and get my comics sent to me by Forbidden Planet in Glasgow. The $2.99 Marvel titles all cost me £1.75, which includes a small discount (25p I believe) for having them on Standing Order.

Of course, I have postage to pay on top, but it is still a pretty good deal all around.

[pedantic mode]Incidentally, 4 Euros is currently around $5.10 :D [/pedantic mode]

[frulad]

I see that.
Why am I paying 4 euro (effectively about $6 or twice the price) for a comic that costs $2.99? I'm going to ring around the (3) comic-book stores and find out how much they are chargimg for it. If it's 4 euro all round then I'll wait for the trade.
Phaze
on the "slightly miffed at rip-off prcing" ID


I feel your pain, my friend is heading over to London tomorrow for a week, culminating with attending the world premier of Casino Royale the lucky bastard, and he was grumbling about the exchange rate...

[Garibaldi's Hair]

Are you kidding? The exchange rate is great ... :p

[SmileOfTheShadow]

Anyone read it yet? I'm not going to get a chance to until maybe this weekend. I'm curious. :)

[phazedout]

Interesting ... I am in the UK rather than Ireland, and get my comics sent to me by Forbidden Planet in Glasgow. The $2.99 Marvel titles all cost me £1.75, which includes a small discount (25p I believe) for having them on Standing Order.

Of course, I have postage to pay on top, but it is still a pretty good deal all around.

[pedantic mode]Incidentally, 4 Euros is currently around $5.10 :D [/pedantic mode]
hmm, 1.75 is almost 3 euros (general rate is 1 euro 50 to the pound). I rang all 3 shops and complained, they say they import them from the UK and this reflects what the UK supplier is charging them, plus a profit.
<sigh>
I'll wait for the trade, at 5 comics in the mini it'll cost me 20 euro for the whole set, and the trade won't run me much over 12. I've not read it yet either, still have lots of other stuff to read.
Phaze
on the "was doing rough calculations old boy" ID

[Harrdy]

Welcome to the "responsible adult phase" *gg*

"Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose a three-piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on Sunday night. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourselves. Choose your future. Choose life... "

PeAcE

[frulad]

Well, I finally read the first issue a couple of nights ago and here's my thoughts (copied and pasted from the AICN comics talkback where I just wrote them...)-

My problem with BULLET POINTS is that there was no REAL consequence of Erskine dying a day early as Steve Rogers still goes on to be the hero of WW2, albeit in the Iron Man armor. And it's that twist, adding the Iron Man armor into the Marvel U much earlier than it ever was previously, that feels false and forced. (Unless I'm forgetting some long ago story point that Tony Stark based his original IM designs on a long ago abandoned Army project that he found files on...) It would have been more interesting to see how WW2 would have progressed without Steve Rogers' involvement at all. And I'm also annoyed at the complete lack of any of the other WW2 heroes showing up. Great idea, I just don't think it was particularly well thought out.

[Jan]

And I'm also annoyed at the complete lack of any of the other WW2 heroes showing up. Great idea, I just don't think it was particularly well thought out.

Which other heroes? How would they have been effected by the bullet?

Jan

[frulad]

There were plenty of other WW2 era Marvel heroes whose origins were pretty independent of Captain America's origins and influence- Sub-Mariner, The Human Torch and Toro, The Whizzer (no, his power was not a superstrong stream of pee), Miss Liberty, Miss America, Spitfire, etc... They would have still emmerged during that time. I think it would have been more interesting to see how these heroes would have fought WW2 without Steve Rogers/Capt America/Iron Man around. Remember Cap was part of the Invaders (w/ Sub Mariner, Human Torch, Toro and Whizzer as the other original members) during this time period and that group formed after saving the life of Winston Churchill from an assassination attempt. Would Churchill have been saved if Cap wasn't there? What path would history and the War have taken if Churchill had died?

[Jan]

I agree that it would be interesting but that's a completely different concept from this miniseries. The idea of this one is to follow the effects of that one bullet through time, not to follow all of the (excuse the mixed metaphore) ripples caused by it in that one timespan.

Jan

[Jan]

Newsarama has an interview with Tommy Lee Edwards (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=91914&highlight=WORLDS+TOMMY+LEE+EDWARDS) who's doing the art on 'Bullet Points'. JMS spoke very highly about his work at ComicCon.

Jan

[SmileOfTheShadow]

Well I finnnnnally got around to reading the issue a few minutes before I went to bed last night. It's pretty interesting, as it really does sorta comb through a bunch of the more prominent marvel characters and show how that one bullet changed their lives. It's kinda amusing how it all transpires too. I like the art a lot for it, and it seems a lot more serious, more of an "elseworlds" than a "what if?" if that makes sense.

Anyone else's impressions?

[Morwen]

I really don't like the "oh, if only he had a father figure" aspect to it. (it's not even a subtext, it's more of a text). I have come to expect a lot better from Joe. I realise that this is rather integral to the storyline, but it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

[Jan]

Welcome, Morwen, glad you joined us.

The thing is, it's not only integral to the story line, it's emblematic of the culture at the time that it was said. It would be false to portray anything different for that point in history, regardless of the writer's own viewpoint.

Jan

[SmileOfTheShadow]

I really don't like the "oh, if only he had a father figure" aspect to it. (it's not even a subtext, it's more of a text). I have come to expect a lot better from Joe. I realise that this is rather integral to the storyline, but it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.


Which part was that?

[Jan]

Second issue that just came out last Wednesday.

Jan

[Morwen]

Welcome, Morwen, glad you joined us.


Ello!


The thing is, it's not only integral to the story line, it's emblematic of the culture at the time that it was said. It would be false to portray anything different for that point in history, regardless of the writer's own viewpoint.

Jan

Quite. But still. Characters saying this in dialogue, not a problem. But it actually being right, in the plot, another matter. As far as metaphors-for-themselves go it's right up there with "Beer Bad".

This could maybe have been saved by focussing a bit more on explaining how Ben's death affected May's parenting skills. Have her be depressed or whatever. As I read it, it pretty much skips straight from Ben dying to Peter turning into the Hulk (both metaphorically and literally), as if that was a foregone conclusion, still. I think this does a disservice to May.

I am a longtime joe fan, and I cried at the ending of Midnight Nation, so reading something he'd written and having the enjoyment killed by what I read as a sinister subtext really shocked me. Maybe it's not fair to judge it just from the first two issues, and I think I shall continue buying it.

--
Abi

[SmileOfTheShadow]

Quite. But still. Characters saying this in dialogue, not a problem. But it actually being right, in the plot, another matter. As far as metaphors-for-themselves go it's right up there with "Beer Bad".

This could maybe have been saved by focussing a bit more on explaining how Ben's death affected May's parenting skills. Have her be depressed or whatever. As I read it, it pretty much skips straight from Ben dying to Peter turning into the Hulk (both metaphorically and literally), as if that was a foregone conclusion, still. I think this does a disservice to May.


See, I think a lot needs to be glazed over like that in a mini like this because it's all about how one bullet reshapes the marvel universe. If he did a mini on each individual character, then you could take the time to go through and flesh out the details of the backstory. But comics is a limited format, and the main point being made there was just that Peter is the Hulk, which I found pretty humorous.

[Jan]

This could maybe have been saved by focussing a bit more on explaining how Ben's death affected May's parenting skills. Have her be depressed or whatever. As I read it, it pretty much skips straight from Ben dying to Peter turning into the Hulk (both metaphorically and literally), as if that was a foregone conclusion, still. I think this does a disservice to May.
Somewhat. But I think we have to assume that Ben's death had a devasting effect on May. In the 'real' story, JMS regularly says that Peter got his powers from the Spider but he got his strength from May.

Does anybody more familiar know how soon after Peter's parents died it was that Ben was killed in 'Bullet Points'? I'd have to read it again but I kind of gathered that they were fairly close together.

I also agree with Smile that choices have to be made in a miniseries that could be explored further in an ongoing book. As I often ask when people wish that things were covered more in Babylon 5, which frames of the Bullet Points #2 issue would you have deleted in order to make the point you want? There's only so much space available, so JMS has to choose what to show carefully.

And since I asked, I'll try to remember to look myself later on. ;) Mainly, though, I'd say not to let the one thing spoil it for you. JMS has earned a little faith in his storytelling.

Jan

[Morwen]

which frames of the Bullet Points #2 issue would you have deleted in order to make the point you want? There's only so much space available, so JMS has to choose what to show carefully.

Well, there sure were a lot of adverts in that issue! :p (she says, knowing full well this cannot help)

And since I asked, I'll try to remember to look myself later on. ;) Mainly, though, I'd say not to let the one thing spoil it for you. JMS has earned a little faith in his storytelling.

Jan

Indeed, which is why I'm certainly planning to continue reading it, It just somewhat unsettled me and I figured out why. It will be interesting to see if anyone comes up with this thought independently or not.

As another nit, I didn't like the page in issue #1, where it describes Pearl Harbor.

"Hours later Germany and Italy declare War on the United States. The Second World War has officially begun."

this really is not something a briton can read and fail to gag at.

But hey, minor nits. Probably I should start another thread to demonstrate my love of Joe's other works :).

[Jan]

Well, there sure were a lot of adverts in that issue! :p (she says, knowing full well this cannot help)
Maybe not but it's sure a movement I could get behind! More pages of story, what a concept!

"Hours later Germany and Italy declare War on the United States. The Second World War has officially begun."

this really is not something a briton can read and fail to gag at.
Well, until war was declared against the US it was the rest of the world at war so...yeah. ;) (just kidding, in case theres any doubt)

But hey, minor nits. Probably I should start another thread to demonstrate my love of Joe's other works :).
Actually, if you don't mind my saying so, I like your style. You say what you don't like and *why*. It's quite refreshing after reading some people going on and on saying that something's s__t but not actually giving any specifics that can be discussed.

But feel free to start the thread anyway. :)

Jan

[phazedout]

I'm weak.
I was on holiday in the Uk last weekend and bought issue three.
Thing is I'll probably end up buying the fracking trade anyway.
I had a friend flick through it fo rme (wanted to see his reaction) and it's 50% ads.
<sigh>
Ah well, it'll be over soon. I can chomp down on Sandman instead.
Phaze
on the "read almost all of Gaiman's output at this point" ID