Drakh vs. Interstellar Alliance: tech advantage? [Archive]

Capt.Montoya

07-16-2004, 02:36 PM

OK, when the Shadows left the Drakh and their followers took Shadow technology with them. That included the defeated Planet Killer, the nanotech plague, the Keepers, the control pods used in Centauri ships, and most likely more Shadow tech that we haven't learned about. They took as much as they could when leaving Z'ha'dum I would think. Not only that, since the Shadows operated through servants they know how to use the Shadow Tech even if they don't know enough to replicate it.

By contrast the Minbari and Earth only had a bit of Vorlon technology in the White Stars... the Vorlon planet is off-limits for the time being. The IA barely understood Vorlon tech and struggled to reverse engineer it for the Excalibur class ships.
Even if the Earth Alliance tried to develop Shadow Tech I doubt the IA would incorporate it in their weapons and ships.
The IA then only has the technology level of Minbari plus some rudimentary organic ship technology incorporated in the White Stars.

Doesn't it seem like the Shadow minions would have a technological advantage against the Interstellar Alliance?

How then can the IA win the Drakh war?

Thoughts?

circularREASON

07-16-2004, 03:02 PM

but doesn't sheridan state in A CALL TO ARMS that every time they came up against left over shado tech they got their asses whooped every time

Ranger 6 and 7/8

07-16-2004, 06:21 PM

Wasnt the Warlock clas Battlecruiser a SHadow Technology combined with EA tech?

I remember it looking like a battlcruiser with a Shadow vessel shoved up one end..It was Ivanova's first ship..at the end of season 4

Atanvarno

07-17-2004, 04:27 AM

You're confusing Clarke's advanced destroyers with the Warlock class destroyer.

Warlock (http://www.b5tech.com/earthalliance/earthallianceshipsandvessels/earthcapships/warlock/warlockviews.jpg). You'll notice no rotating sections. (I assume this is because of the IA sharing artifical gravity tech with the EA, however, I'm not sure how they made a ship so darn quickly for Ivanova to take command of.)

Advanced destroyer (http://www.b5tech.com/earthalliance/earthallianceshipsandvessels/earthcapships/omegax/omegax.jpg).

Bonehead

07-17-2004, 04:31 AM

The Warlock class was one of the newer breeds of EA destroyer. If I remember correctly we see a normal one in a Crusade episode.

As you rightly said, durin President Clarke's reign, a few 'advanced' destroyers were created by back-engineering shadow vessels.

In regards to how the Alliance could win against superior tech is a matter of balance.

The Drakh are, whats left of, one race (although the Strieb seem to tag along on occasion, eg on Centauri Prime). They are a race thats lost its home and all its resources. Once their ships are slowly picked off by the Alliance, they would have no way of replenishing their forces.

The alliance is a combination of many races with massive resources and manpower at its desposal. Even if it took several years, the alliance would come out eventually on top.

Despite the Drakh having superior technology, its a question of numbers.

Bonehead

07-19-2004, 06:16 AM

Well, I was just looking at some starship designs and came across these 'official' size charts which I found interesting.

OMG ! I cant believe the size of the Drakh mother ship ! Check out the first chart with the mothership 59.69km long compared to B5 at 8.45km long. That sounds biger than a Vorlon planet killer, maybe the Drakh would be harder to take down than I thought. (even their standard cruiser is bigger than the Excalibur)

(Shame all the other ships are not shown - like the Sharlin or g'quan)

Ship charts (http://warlock.isnnews.net/resources/sizecharts/index.html)

Ranger 6 and 7/8

07-20-2004, 06:07 AM

Bonehead

07-20-2004, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by Atanvarno
You're confusing Clarke's advanced destroyers with the Warlock class destroyer.

Warlock (http://www.b5tech.com/earthalliance/earthallianceshipsandvessels/earthcapships/warlock/warlockviews.jpg). You'll notice no rotating sections. (I assume this is because of the IA sharing artifical gravity tech with the EA, however, I'm not sure how they made a ship so darn quickly for Ivanova to take command of.)

Advanced destroyer (http://www.b5tech.com/earthalliance/earthallianceshipsandvessels/earthcapships/omegax/omegax.jpg).

Well, by the looks of THIS (http://www.b5tech.com/earthalliance/earthallianceshipsandvessels/earthcapships/warlock/warlock.html) the Warlock was designed durin Clarkes reign with Narn/Dilgar/Centauri and Shadow tech, and was about to begin production when Sherridens forces began their offensive with Earth.

It was the Warlock that was to have the Shadow tech added originally. But due to Sherriden's offensive, they quickly fitted the tech to the Omegas instead to save time (the warlock shipyards and a few nearly finished Warlocks were captured).

After the civil war was concluded, the design was updated to include the new Minbari gravity systems.

On a slightly different subject I also found this interesting article about the appearance of Omegas in 'In the Beginning' which by all accounts should have been Novas since the Omega was meant to be designed after the Minbari war.Nova X ? (http://www.b5tech.com/science/misc/Omega_Evolution/Omega_Evo.htm)

NotKosh

07-20-2004, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by Ranger 6 and 7/8
yeah, i just figured out where I got my confusion. Watch the ep again.
As they are explaining what happened to everyone, they show a flyby of the Advanced cruiser as they say the Ivanova has decided to take command of the new Warlock class prototype cruiser.

I am calling you on this.

I just watched it again.

1) Ivanova is looking out of the station. From lower left to right, 3 Furies do a flybye as it pans up to her. There is also a cargo ship on the right. When inside, when she is looking out the window there is a transport plunking around. There is no Advanced Cruiser in that shot.

Capt.Montoya

08-30-2004, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by circularREASON
but doesn't sheridan state in A CALL TO ARMS that every time they came up against left over shado tech they got their asses whooped every time

That is why I was asking...;)

The thread wandered into ship comparisons but I'd like to see more opinions on this topic...

After the Shadow War it's apparent the Drakh have the technological advantage, yet the IA defeats them in the Drakh war a few years later... or do they?
One million years thereafter the conflict against opposing forces continues.

Thoughts?

circularREASON

08-30-2004, 01:22 PM

my guess is that the same cycle which evolved between the Shadows and Vorlons begins again. ( remember Delenn in WWE2 - ''only the names change'' ).

It is probably an eternal cycle.

Once the First ones left the cycle passed on the the younger races.

Only my opinion though - I would love to read what others have to say.

jal

08-30-2004, 02:00 PM

the Drakh and their allies probably have a tech advantage going for them, but in the long term i just can`t see them keeping that advantage.

i don`t think they don`t have the numbers when compared to the ISA, nor a stable base of opperations.

nor do i see them actually succeeding in taking over the role that the Shadows left vacant, the Drakh are mere wannabes and in the long term.. not up to the job (just my personal point of view).

------------------------------------------

as for the Warlock, it is never shown in Babylon 5, it`s first showing was in the tv movie "A Call To Arms", and then it was only glimsed very briefly during the final battle when the Drakh controlled Shadow Death Cloud is let loose against Earth.

we finally get to see a whole warlock in the final episode of Crusade.

the Warlock did have some Shadow tech systems in it, a short story by JMS mentions that fact.

but it was never kitted out with the same Shadow armour as seen in season four of B5 when Ivanova has a run in with the Shadow Omegas controlled by Clarke.

some confusion may be arising from the fact that when the Shadow Omegas were first seen on the show some people on the net put 2 & 2 together and got 5, thinking that they were actuall Warlocks, such was not the case.

Dr Maturin

08-30-2004, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by jal
the Drakh and their allies probably have a tech advantage going for them, but in the long term i just can`t see them keeping that advantage.

i don`t think they don`t have the numbers when compared to the ISA, nor a stable base of opperations.

nor do i see them actually succeeding in taking over the role that the Shadows left vacant, the Drakh are mere wannabes and in the long term.. not up to the job (just my personal point of view).

------------------------------------------

as for the Warlock, it is never shown in Babylon 5, it`s first showing was in the tv movie "A Call To Arms", and then it was only glimsed very briefly during the final battle when the Drakh controlled Shadow Death Cloud is let loose against Earth.

we finally get to see a whole warlock in the final episode of Crusade.

the Warlock did have some Shadow tech systems in it, a short story by JMS mentions that fact.

but it was never kitted out with the same Shadow armour as seen in season four of B5 when Ivanova has a run in with the Shadow Omegas controlled by Clarke.

some confusion may be arising from the fact that when the Shadow Omegas were first seen on the show some people on the net put 2 & 2 together and got 5, thinking that they were actuall Warlocks, such was not the case.

Well, if the Drakh are currently want-to-be's, then maybe they learn to become the real deal later on. Are the humans mere want-to-be's? They may become the opposing force later on, as mentioned earlier. If Minbar is the center of ISA operations, then maybe the Minbari become one of the shepherd races, not the humans. Or...BOTH. Maybe the An'Shalok become the shepherds and not one race. I mean, in DOFS, we see the Rangers on a clandestine mission on Earth in the future. They could be doing this everywhere.

SPOILERS FOLLOW...

Well, the Drakh DON'T have a base any longer, after their homeworld of Xha'dam was destroyed in the LOF trilogy. But they would probably find someplace else to dig in and set up a new base.

jal

08-30-2004, 06:34 PM

SPOILERS FOLLOW...

Well, the Drakh DON'T have a base any longer, after their homeworld of Xha'dam was destroyed in the LOF trilogy. But they would probably find someplace else to dig in and set up a new base.

more spoilers follow.......

(i keep forgetting that not everyone has see and read it all. :eek: )

well, their attempt to use Centauri Prime as a home/base doesn`t work out either.

it is also possible that the Drakh were not the most able servants that the Shadows had,.

who else withdrew to lurking in the shadows when Z`ha`dum fell?

just because the Drakh were the first to grab hold of the reigns of power does not neccessarily mean that they were destined to fill the shoes of their masters.

maybe the smart ones are still out there.... waiting, what`s a wait of a thousand years against the chance of shaping the future? it never bothered the Shadows. ;) :D

Dr Maturin

08-30-2004, 07:48 PM

<<well, their attempt to use Centauri Prime as a home/base doesn`t work out either.

it is also possible that the Drakh were not the most able servants that the Shadows had,.>>

That, or it was just the end result of messin' with Londo F'n Mollari.

<<who else withdrew to lurking in the shadows when Z`ha`dum fell?>>

The Streib, the Wurtt (sp?), the "technicians."

<<just because the Drakh were the first to grab hold of the reigns of power does not neccessarily mean that they were destined to fill the shoes of their masters.

maybe the smart ones are still out there.... waiting, what`s a wait of a thousand years against the chance of shaping the future? it never bothered the Shadows.>>

True, but for some reason I think the Drakh are the ones, despite their initial failures. They have something of a collective conciousness, so that is a plus in forming a policy of terror against other races.

And notice how the Shadows got something of a free pass in Into the Fire? They were apparently going to go beyond the rim and play nice. The Drakh have been portrayed as nothing but pure evil, like robots, if you will.

iamsheridan

08-30-2004, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
If Minbar is the center of ISA operations, then maybe the Minbari become one of the shepherd races, not the humans. Or...BOTH. Maybe the An'Shalok become the shepherds and not one race.

Maybe the Minbari can shepherd the lawful ("unchaotic") ones and Humans the chaotic ones? :p :)

/IamS

iamsheridan

08-30-2004, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by jal
maybe the smart ones are still out there.... waiting, what`s a wait of a thousand years against the chance of shaping the future? it never bothered the Shadows. ;) :D

You didn't know them when they were young...

Maybe they were like the Drakh, or Humans, or Drazi, or...

/IamS

WorkerCaste

08-31-2004, 04:57 AM

I'm joining a little late, but back to the original question, I'm in agreement with a lot of the thoughts expressed. I think ultimately, the Drakh had a definite tech advantage, but numbers dealt them a losing hand. Not only numbers in terms of population, but numbers in terms of the goodies left behind by the Shadows. I always got the impression that the Shadows were better at sharing tools than technology. The difference in my mind is that the Drakh had these tools they knew how to use, but the couldn't build new ones. If you can't replace items, then the availability will continue to decrease. How much could they carry away, or how many larger items had the Shadows hidden on other worlds? All that makes for a weak strategic position even though the at a tactical level the technology gives great advantage.

ZHD and IamS, for the record, JMS had this to say about the new generation of shepherd races:
The Minbari eventually make it; the Narn and Centauri do not. They don't die out, they just don't hit a state of First One-ishness, which is darn close to immortality (barring violence). Who knows, maybe over time they did develop a philosophical difference and entered into another cycle using the "still younger" races as pawns in their debate. I like to think not, though. I'm like to be optimistic whenever possible. :) Then again, I like to think a jelly doughnut qualifies as fruit and fibre, so there you have it. :D

circularREASON

08-31-2004, 12:34 PM

just a thought....

KOSH ''they are a dying people, we should let them pass''
SINCLAIR ''who? the Narn or the Centauri?''
KOSH ''Yes''

Maybe the Drakh are a red herring.

Maybe the above was actually a warning from kosh .

Maybe the Narn and Centauri are the races which fill the roles of the Vorlons and Shadows.

Speculation is fun isn't it.

circularREASON

08-31-2004, 12:38 PM

I'd like to know what happens to humanity ?

the Earth variety

and the Mars variety

WorkerCaste

08-31-2004, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by circularREASON
I'd like to know what happens to humanity ?

the Earth variety

and the Mars variety Humans make it to First One-ishness using JMS' term from the quote above. He gave us that in "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars." at the end when the human does the ball of light thing and enters the encounter suit. I know the post I quoted above doesn't mention humans, but I'm quite sure that the context made it a given.

circularREASON

08-31-2004, 01:04 PM

Yeh.

But my general question is Earth and mars split.

do the Mars humans eventually shoot off in their own direction or do all humanity share a common goal and common destiny?

Dr Maturin

08-31-2004, 02:37 PM

<<Maybe the Narn and Centauri are the races which fill the roles of the Vorlons and Shadows.>>

The quote from JMS above dissolves that particular piece of speculation.

bakana

08-31-2004, 04:48 PM

I'd like to know what happens to humanity ?

see The Deconstruction of Falling Stars

And note the previous post where JMS is quoted as sayng that Humans eventually evolve to the level of the Vorlons & Shadows, but that the Narn & Centauri do NOT.

JMS ought to Know. After all, He's THE Vorlon! :D :D :D :cool:

Capt.Montoya

09-01-2004, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by circularREASON
Yeh.

But my general question is Earth and mars split.

do the Mars humans eventually shoot off in their own direction or do all humanity share a common goal and common destiny?
Deconstruction of Falling Stars hints that Earth Humans fell out of the common destiny by almost blasting themselves into oblivion, but the Rangers were definitely trying to bring them back into the fold.

The proximity of Mars makes the Earth downfall and quarantine after the near-apocalypse the more intriguing...

But the quarantine years during the Drakh plague may have helped isolate Earth from the rest of humanity, with lasting effects.

My take on this is that it's the former Earth Colonies (including Mars) that become the prime allies of the IA, with Earth becoming a sort of Centauri Prime, longing for the age when they were a big power in control of several colonies. By the same token it's the other human worlds that become a full part of the Rangers and share the sheperding destiny.

But a million years after the Shadow War it is apparent to me that Earth has become again part of the human comunity. Either that or it finally destroyed itself and the Ranger is taking recordings at a dead world, only from nostalgia for the craddle of humanity, not because Old Earth made it...

circularREASON

09-01-2004, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Capt.Montoya
Deconstruction of Falling Stars hints that Earth Humans fell out of the common destiny by almost blasting themselves into oblivion, but the Rangers were definitely trying to bring them back into the fold.

The proximity of Mars makes the Earth downfall and quarantine after the near-apocalypse the more intriguing...

But the quarantine years during the Drakh plague may have helped isolate Earth from the rest of humanity, with lasting effects.

My take on this is that it's the former Earth Colonies (including Mars) that become the prime allies of the IA, with Earth becoming a sort of Centauri Prime, longing for the age when they were a big power in control of several colonies. By the same token it's the other human worlds that become a full part of the Rangers and share the sheperding destiny.

But a million years after the Shadow War it is apparent to me that Earth has become again part of the human comunity. Either that or it finally destroyed itself and the Ranger is taking recordings at a dead world, only from nostalgia for the craddle of humanity, not because Old Earth made it...

To be honest I didnt know what to make of DECONSTRUCTION.

The Ranger was watching the destruction of Earth but there always seemed to be an underlying question as regards to the humans on earth and if indeed it was eventually the earthers who obliterated themselves, and if they didnt who did?

also - another question if you will.

The Vorlon Homeworld has been left neglected for a million years after the Vorlons left. What kinda state do you think humanity is going to find it in? I mean it is not guaranteed to be a lush green planet is it? It could be near desolate.

FuryPilot

09-01-2004, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by circularREASON
To be honest I didnt know what to make of DECONSTRUCTION.

The Ranger was watching the destruction of Earth but there always seemed to be an underlying question as regards to the humans on earth and if indeed it was eventually the earthers who obliterated themselves, and if they didnt who did?

also - another question if you will.

The Vorlon Homeworld has been left neglected for a million years after the Vorlons left. What kinda state do you think humanity is going to find it in? I mean it is not guaranteed to be a lush green planet is it? It could be near desolate.

In answer to your first question, we know that what was happening to the sun was not natural. I do not remember if JMS said anything more on the subject, but I suspect that since Humanity was becomming more Vorlon-like (transcending) and being under protection of the Rangers I can't imagine anyone else having destroyed the solar system except themselves.

My thought is that since they were moving to the Vorlon homeworld (and couldn't leave Earth to any younger races for the same reasons why Vorlon space was quarantined when they left) it was decided to make the sun go nova and wipe out the evidence.

Remember, there was to be a celebration on the Vorlon homeworld -- hardly something you would do if you were escaping an unplanned destruction of your own homeworld...

As for your second question, you must remember that humanity was transcended. What should a new homeworld look like for beings of this nature? Green fields and clear blue skies? Landscapes composed of thought and energy?

There are certain mysteries that we cannot understand, and to attempt it only cheapens the concept. This (IMHO) is one of them.

Suffice it to say that the Vorlon homeworld is eminently suited to transcended biengs, with enough working technology to have cared for the planet in the intervening ages.

FP

Flynn2000

09-27-2004, 03:30 PM

Question:

Why do the Drakh ships use a Vorlon type jump engine? Why not a shadow type?

TWT

Flynn2000

09-27-2004, 03:39 PM

Another thing:

Fans seem too think that humans in B5's future evolve into Vorlon like lifeformes as shown in "Deconstruction of Falling Stars". Look agian. The Ranger at the end is shown transforming into a "Lorien" kind of anergy ball, not a crystalline energy, carrot/squid like thing. I know this may be splitting hairs, but it's just bugged me all this time.

TWT

Capt.Montoya

09-27-2004, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by Flynn2000
Question:

Why do the Drakh ships use a Vorlon type jump engine? Why not a shadow type?

TWT I never noticed that.
But I remember they also had another type of engine, shown in A Call to Arms... a sort of "black portal" that took a ship to another point without travelling through hyperspace.
They may also have had the Shadow "dissolve to hyperspace" engine, in addition to jump-point engines, even if it wasn't shown.

The Vorlon "squid" was supposed to be their true physical shape, or a reflection of it. Similarly the million year Ranger seems completely human until he enters the encounter suit.
At least that's how I interpret it.

vacantlook

09-27-2004, 04:33 PM

But I remember they also had another type of engine, shown in A Call to Arms... a sort of "black portal" that took a ship to another point without travelling through hyperspace.

The Null Field. I didn't think it was a portal. I thought it was more like an envelope they wrapped around their huge ass fleet of ships as they travelled in regular space to keep those outside the field from being able to scan into the field and realize there was a fleet there.

bakana

09-27-2004, 05:55 PM

Why do the Drakh ships use a Vorlon type jump engine? Why not a shadow type?

We don't know that it WAS a Vorlon type engine.

It may be that the appearance of the Jump Point is Always like that, no matter what the design of the engine which opens it.

For instance, Human ships with Jump Engines also look like that when they jump and we Know they don't have Vorlon jump engines.

The Shadow method of "Sliding" into jump space may be a much more Energy Intense method.
But, it fits the Shadow "Personality" of being inconspicuous.
And, while the Drakh are shadow Servants, that doesn't mean the Shadows give them any help with Tech matters.

Vorlons probably also know how to jump inconspicuously, but when they don't Care who sees their ships, they use the more "Visible" method.

Those who walk at Sigma 957 also seem to use a variation on the "Shadow" jump.

Andrew_Swallow

09-27-2004, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by Flynn2000
Another thing:

Fans seem too think that humans in B5's future evolve into Vorlon like lifeformes as shown in "Deconstruction of Falling Stars". Look agian. The Ranger at the end is shown transforming into a "Lorien" kind of anergy ball, not a crystalline energy, carrot/squid like thing. I know this may be splitting hairs, but it's just bugged me all this time.

Speculating. It could be a way of showing that we have not only caught up with the Vorlons but have surpassed them.

P. S. The future humans would not need tentacles because they would be telekinetics with a built in ability to use telepathic remote controls. The Vorlons may have developed tentacles before inventing telekinesis.

We do not know if the energy balls have a hidden crystalline centre.

Andrew_Swallow

09-27-2004, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by bakana
We don't know that it WAS a Vorlon type engine.

It may be that the appearance of the Jump Point is Always like that, no matter what the design of the engine which opens it.

As shown in "Into The Fire" each of the first Ones has their own method of entering hyperspace. It is not impossible that inventing a method of entering hyperspace was the old test required to gain First One Status.

Seven or eight thousand years ago the Vorlons went around the galaxy installing jump gates built to a simplified design. The Drahk could have found their local jump gate and started travelling between the stars. The Shadows could have then discovered the Drahk and invited them (or some of them) to Z'ha'dum. Having copied the Vorlon jump engine the Drahk would not have needed to be given a second design of jump engines by the Shadows.

Bonehead

09-28-2004, 05:27 AM

This may be splitting hairs but the Shadows never used jump engines. Their ships were constructed with the ability to 'phase' in and out of hyperspace.

In theory this means that somehow they could change the composition of their ships to pass through the barrier into hyperspace. Most likely this was unique to their ships and could not be fitted to inferior Drakh ships.

A 'jump engine' basically punches a hole into hyperspace allowing any ship to pass through the hole. Most other races were limited to this method to enter hyperspace.

The Walkers appeared to jump into normal space at Sigma 957 but we do not know it was from hyperspace. For all we know they could simply fold space to hide themselves like the Vorlons. This does not neccesarily mean they could phase into hyperspace.

Also, if the Vorlons did indeed build all the jumpgates, I doubt it was for other races to use, but for themselves. I dont believe their ships were capable of phasing into hyperspace like the Shadows.

WorkerCaste

09-28-2004, 05:52 AM

I can’t recall any case where the younger races used anything but the standard jump point transition to and from hyperspace. That may be the most direct method, and the easiest one to find and develop. The Vorlons may just never have cared enough to look for another way. In many ways, their focus seems to be more inward. The other First Ones might have gotten there by a different, harder route to begin with, or they might have continued to refine the process after the Vorlons were happy.

NotKosh

09-28-2004, 06:23 AM

Originally posted by vacantlook
The Null Field. I didn't think it was a portal. I thought it was more like an envelope they wrapped around their huge ass fleet of ships as they travelled in regular space to keep those outside the field from being able to scan into the field and realize there was a fleet there.

I don't think that is what the Null Field was.

It was their Shadow DeathCloud.

NotKosh

09-28-2004, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by WorkerCaste
I can’t recall any case where the younger races used anything but the standard jump point transition to and from hyperspace. That may be the most direct method, and the easiest one to find and develop. The Vorlons may just never have cared enough to look for another way. In many ways, their focus seems to be more inward. The other First Ones might have gotten there by a different, harder route to begin with, or they might have continued to refine the process after the Vorlons were happy.

Look at the philosophy!

The Vorlon/gate method is the produce of an ordered process. Build a device that slowly opens a path into hyperspace for a period of time.

The Shadow method seems to be to rip/force the ship immediately to hyperspace

Capt.Montoya

09-28-2004, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by Bonehead
Also, if the Vorlons did indeed build all the jumpgates, I doubt it was for other races to use, but for themselves. I dont believe their ships were capable of phasing into hyperspace like the Shadows. Somewhere I read that the Vorlon's building of jumpgates is a canonical fact, but I didn't know that before joining these forums.
This was part of their "parenting" of younger races, by leaving jumpgates near the solar systems of sentience developing planets, a way to help them become part of the galactic community once they were ready to find, understand and duplicate jump engines.

The vanishing act of the Shadow ships does agree with the chaos philosophy: attack with no warning, no jump-point forming for enemy defenses to detect.

vacantlook

09-28-2004, 11:51 AM

I don't think that is what the Null Field was.

It was their Shadow DeathCloud.

Well the Null Field makes an appearance in the second book of the Centauri trilogy Armies of Light and Dark. In it, the Null Field is described thusly:

Mild

Centauri

Trilogy

S
p
o
i
l
e
r

S
p
a
c
e

"It's a null field," Finian replied. "Think of it as almost a sort of portable black hole... except you can go in and out. It absorbs all light and all manner of sensory or energy probes. It can utterly convince instrumentation that it's not there. And people who encounter it won't bother to see with their own eyes because they've become so heavily dependent on technology...."

Shortly there after once they've entered the Null Field, they come across a huge Shadow base called Xha'dam that's bigger than the Babylon 5 station, and at the far end of Xha'dam, was something that at first looked like some sort of planet but when viewed more was revieled to be the Shadow Planet Killer with Drakh ships around it working on it and preparing it for use.

E
n
d

So, I'd have to say that the Null Field and the Shadow Planet Killer are two completely different pieces of technology.

bakana

09-29-2004, 04:55 PM

The vanishing act of the Shadow ships does agree with the chaos philosophy: attack with no warning, no jump-point forming for enemy defenses to detect.

I believe that, in one episode, a White Star IS able to detect the Shadow ships opening a jump point.
It's detectable. Just not as "loud and flashy" as the other method(s).

Lord Scotty

09-29-2004, 08:00 PM

Each race has a technology tree as they move up it there are pivotal points.

Certain races became transcendant before they developed hyperspace technology.

The Triad and Lorien see between all different dimensions, and so don't use this technology. And the Triumviron which is the Triad's ship, is created by their minds.

The Walkers do not use a Hyperspace Device, instead they use a device that lets them move into any Dimension of their choosing.

And the reason the Vorlons created the jump gates was because it was determined that the technology needed to duplicate a jump gate, was far less than that of to find your own entrance into hyperspace. By making the gates the Vorlons essentially cut off the development of the other races. They did this because of the Kirshiac who are the last of the First Ones, and one of the most dangerous.

Regards,

Lord Scotty

see Wars of the Ancients