JMS' Spider-Man causes controversy, to be removed from school library?

[vakie]

This is pretty funny..

"Mom Protests 'Sexual' Spider-Man Comic"
http://www.ketv.com/video/19030628/index.html

http://www.ketv.com/education/19030671/detail.html

[babylonlurker]

This is pretty funny..

"Mom Protests 'Sexual' Spider-Man Comic"
http://www.ketv.com/video/19030628/index.html

http://www.ketv.com/education/19030671/detail.html

Yep ... absolutely ridiculous ... she even contradicts herself in the interview ...
first "explicit" - then "undertones"

[Jan]

I can only be glad that woman has nothing better to worry about.

Jan

[Joe Nazzaro]

And the worst she can find is a woman in a bikini? Hopefully she's never watched that new piece of technology called, what is called again?- oh yeah, television. Five minutes of the CW and she'd probably be comatose.

[Jan]

What I thought was really funny is that the kid was behind her looking on as she paged through the book pointing out the 'naughty bits'. Anybody wanna bet that the kid's favorite new word is 'sexuality'?

Some people...

Jan

[vakie]

I can't offhand remember how much violence there is in those issues, but I bet there's a lot of punching and blood splattering everywhere, maybe even people dying.. guns, knives, etc. And the thing she wants to protect her kids and others from, is a girl in a bikini. I guess they can never go swim on a public beach, because they might see something inappropriate.. but I guess she wouldn't have a problem taking them to see a crime scene where people have been shot and stabbed.

[Jan]

That's one of the things that bugs me a lot, too, Vakie (though I don't recall much in the way of blood in the Spidey comics). I don't remember if it was Robert A. Heinlein or Spider Robinson who made the point that there's something wrong with a society that finds a naked blade less obscene than a naked breast.

Wonder what video games her kids play, for that matter.

Jan

[OmahaStar]

Don't you love it when idiots from your hometown make the national news?

Ugh.

[frulad]

Five minutes of the CW and she'd probably be comatose.

We should be so lucky...

[frulad]

She said she's especially concerned about her 6-year-old son, who's still developing reading skills.

More worrying is that the kid is also developing social skills, which are very probably being damaged by his over-reactionary mother.

Svendsen said she plans to hold on to the book that her son brought home while the review process takes place.

And what if this review requires the book as part of the reveiw process. Will she give it up or still hold on to it, lest the reviewers become 'tainted' by its inappropriateness? If she doesn't give it up can the scholl have her arrested for theft?

[Doom Shepherd]

If she doesn't give it up can the scholl have her arrested for theft?

They should do that immediately... as part of the "negotiation" process.

I'm glad this didn't happen in my hometown. I'd feel compelled to make a citizen's arrest. With considerable police brutality.

The only approprate response to censorship is a beating. :mad:

Lady, YOU are not qualified to decide what OTHER people's kids read. You don't want YOUR kid reading it, fine. (You're still an idiot, but that's your right.) You don't have the right to remove it from the library so that other people whose moral fiber isn't as weak as yours can't let their kids read it.

I take it back. No beating. Instead, buy up a bunch of copies of the comic book and distribute them FREE to any kid who wants one.

On the street in front of her house. :D

[Garibaldi's Hair]

I'm more intrigued by the idea that an elementary school library would have comic books in the first place.

My primary school (30 year ago it has to be said) never had anything like that and neither did the library at the primary school my own two children attended up until last Summer.

That said, my son read and very much enjoyed JMS' run on AMS, including that very issue ... and since there is no actual sexual content in AMS (barring occasional innuendo between Peter and MJ - who are of course married - that went right over his head), more just an attractive redhead who can occasionally be seen walking around her own home in her underwear and posing for photographers in a bikini (being a model and all that) I really didn't have an issue with that.

It has, of course, become noticeable in the last couple of years (as they have reached teenage) that that same level of innuendo passing between their mother and father is now "disgusting" where it previously went completely unnoticed.

:D

[Darth_librarian]

MJ is just as hot now as she was when I was reading Spiderman at aged 11. There is also a big fat 12+ rating on the book. Heres a few fellow Librarian's take:

http://lisnews.org/mom_protests_librarys_sexual_spider_man_comic

Totally agreed on the violence vs nudity thing. To generalise for a second, that does seem to be a fairly U.S. lead approach to censorship though. In Europe, its much more about censoring violence and allow adults to enjoy adult entertainment.

Even us stiff-faced brits are more easy going than this.

[Doom Shepherd]

I'm more intrigued by the idea that an elementary school library would have comic books in the first place.
:D

They're actually a pretty effective tool for attracting what are known as "reluctant readers," the kids who normally think of reading as a chore (often because they have difficulty at it), or simply don't like to do it much - like the kids who have to do a reading assignment... and choose their book based on how thin it is.

The idea is to use whatever means you can to get them to read.

[Marsden]

I think a part of it could be the boy is more likely to get horny and want to go have sex than suddenly start shooting criminals with a skull on his chest. I really agree that the notion it's ok to show mind numbing violence but not any cleavage is flawed.
However, who are these books made for? If adults then there shouldn't be a complaint with either, but a 12 year old is a different animal.

I remeber seeing violent images in comics when I was that age and younger and I was really disturbed, I didn't even realize it at the time how much but I look back and I still have images of some of those panels in my mind and while it wouldn't really bother me now, being 38, I remember how I felt. I especially was scared of dismemberment type things, and being a little kid losing your arms is scary. I'd like to spare the current generation of children that but I can only protect my daughter, I often worry I'm overprotecting her but I don't have her waking up with nightmares every night like I went through at times in my life.

I'm sorry I'm rambling, this isn't an issue to wave away as silly and it's easy to prey upon the shortcommings of someone who isn't a public speaker being interviewed on tv. I think this woman is over doing it but I can understand where she's coming from and drivel about beatings and platitudes about censorship don't really help.

I remember when I was in my twenties and Spidey first got married, it seemed like anytime he was feeling down then (which is a very important part of Spiderman, he is a complex emotional character and that often causes reflection and possible recrimination) MJ would say "Oh, Peter looks down, I know I'll show him my tits" and that happened a lot. Poor writing in my opinion but something I think I'd refrain from letting a child of mine see.
I remember an X-man annual, the one where the Impossible Man is on a scavanger hunt and stealing lots of major things and one of them is Nick Fury's eypatch. In a page of the book the panels show him and his girlfriend or whatever she was hardly covered in a robe and were starting to have sex, I was surprized at the time they'd put that in a comic. If it was intended for adults, then it should have been so, but there was no indication of such and I didn't think it was necessary as it didn't forward the story other than he ended up taking the eyepatch. That woman would have pissed her pants if she saw that issue, and that was in the early 80s. Man I feel old.

In closing, I think many of the times sex is in things like comics it's gratuitous and really doesn't forward the story where the violence is the action of the plot. How do you have conflict without some kind of action? But violence can be just as gratuitous and that is somehow not condemend as much, and that is hypocritical.

[Jan]

That was an interesting and thoughtful post, Marsden, thanks.

I think my main issues with that woman are that she's making a point that sex is something dirty that her kids should be protected from when a simple, factual explanation would satisfy her son if he had questions. Our Puritan background here in the States has never worn off and I hate to see parents perpetuating it. Secondly, she's managed to make a big public deal out of a very minor event. Why? I can't help but think that she's enjoying being in the spotlight.

When it comes to violence, I think there are degrees and parents really should monitor what their kids see. There's the bam-pow stuff that happens in Spidey, for instance and that's probably something any but the most sensitive kid could handle. I remember much more graphic horror-type stuff when I was growing up, though that didn't disturb me as much as it did you but I can understand why it did. Close-ups of weapons, wounds and pools of blood and that sort of thing are far more upsetting than a good sock to the jaw that sends the bad guy flying into a building.

At the same time (and bear in mind that I'm *not* a parent so my opinion counts for little in this case), I can't help but feel that kids are way overprotected from almost everything these days. Is it unfeeling of me to think that they should be allowed to take risks, to fall out of trees, to go someplace unaccompanied or play without being watched despite any perceived risks of all the things the media would like us to think are lurking in wait for every innocent in the world? A good parent should be there to teach and to guide but not to prevent all of the possible negative things that a child might experience. That's the nice thing about our society - for the most part kids can grow and experience in relative safety.

I'm grateful that my parents left me alone to explore and figure things out for myself and to let me read anything I wanted. There were times when it was too much and yes, disturbing and sometimes I got hurt. But I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world and I wish they were still around so I could tell them so.

Jan

[Marsden]

Thanks, Jan, I appreciate your comments. I agree about trees and fun. I just like to watch from a reasonable distance so no boo-boo turns into an injury or worse.

Sorry I didn't mention, but it wasn't Spidey or I think even Marvels that really bothered me but some Horror type comic, I remember particularly, hope this isn't too graphic, but basically a panel showed a persons head being ripped apart with a big splash of blood and recognizable pieces all about. And if I saw it a few years later I would have been, "wow cool" but also I think by that age I was desensitized. Oh, well.


BTW, I didn't actually see the video, her motivation is unknown to me and I don't think I would posted the way I did before I had my daughter. So, take what you would, I agree with no censorship but not necessarily with access to children.

[AstroBoy]

That was an interesting and thoughtful post, Marsden, thanks.

I think my main issues with that woman are that she's making a point that sex is something dirty that her kids should be protected from when a simple, factual explanation would satisfy her son if he had questions. Our Puritan background here in the States has never worn off and I hate to see parents perpetuating it. Secondly, she's managed to make a big public deal out of a very minor event. Why? I can't help but think that she's enjoying being in the spotlight.

When it comes to violence, I think there are degrees and parents really should monitor what their kids see. There's the bam-pow stuff that happens in Spidey, for instance and that's probably something any but the most sensitive kid could handle. I remember much more graphic horror-type stuff when I was growing up, though that didn't disturb me as much as it did you but I can understand why it did. Close-ups of weapons, wounds and pools of blood and that sort of thing are far more upsetting than a good sock to the jaw that sends the bad guy flying into a building.

At the same time (and bear in mind that I'm *not* a parent so my opinion counts for little in this case), I can't help but feel that kids are way overprotected from almost everything these days. Is it unfeeling of me to think that they should be allowed to take risks, to fall out of trees, to go someplace unaccompanied or play without being watched despite any perceived risks of all the things the media would like us to think are lurking in wait for every innocent in the world? A good parent should be there to teach and to guide but not to prevent all of the possible negative things that a child might experience. That's the nice thing about our society - for the most part kids can grow and experience in relative safety.

I'm grateful that my parents left me alone to explore and figure things out for myself and to let me read anything I wanted. There were times when it was too much and yes, disturbing and sometimes I got hurt. But I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world and I wish they were still around so I could tell them so.

Jan

Jan I have to agree with you here. When I was growing up in the early to mid '70s my parents (who are both avid readers) never censored anything that I read. they let me read anything I wanted to and if I had questions etc... to come to them with them.

My dad had subscriptions to Playboy, Oui and a few other adult magazines, but they were never kept from me either. I remember reading Playboy when I was 8, and while the pictures were of minor interest at that age, the articles and interviews are what I really went for.

Playboy is where I 1st found out how to tie a tie, read about Porsche and other cars, and yes learned about sex.

At the same time I was reading books on science, politics, Biographies, hell anything I could get my hands on. My mom got me an adult level Library card when I was 10 since I had long passed the kids section reading level.

I have taken the same tack with my two sons. I never censored what they read, but my wife (being more religious and puritanical than I) would try to.

So yes I too am grateful to my folks for letting me discover stuff on my own. I should tell them that one day.

[Doom Shepherd]

Has there ever been a study that has in any way indicated that children are psychologically harmed by experiencing such harmless sexuality as walking in on their parents having sex?

As the son of a psychology teacher, I can tell you the answer. No.

Unless, of course, the child's parents actually inflict the psychological damage themselves by freaking out and punishing the child, or have already made the error of implying that sex is somehow "evil and dirty" (rather making the parents hypocrites), or both.

Nor is there any evidence that seeing sexuality in photographic form has any significant effect on child sexual behavior. (In other words, if that 12-year-old starts going out and having sex, it won't be because he saw a woman in her underwear in a comic book. Or a Playboy. Or in a Sears catalog. or as a JC Penneys mannequin)

You'll notice my next point in that last parenthetical: sexuality is so pervasive that eliminating a comic book will have zero impact on the number of sexual images any child is exposed to.

Lastly, what talk of violent and sexual imagery for children would be complete without a good reading of the ORIGINAL Grimm's Fairy Tales? Talk about violence and death and scary crap.

[raw_bean]

Thanks, Jan, I appreciate your comments. I agree about trees and fun. I just like to watch from a reasonable distance so no boo-boo turns into an injury or worse.

Sorry I didn't mention, but it wasn't Spidey or I think even Marvels that really bothered me but some Horror type comic, I remember particularly, hope this isn't too graphic, but basically a panel showed a persons head being ripped apart with a big splash of blood and recognizable pieces all about. And if I saw it a few years later I would have been, "wow cool" but also I think by that age I was desensitized. Oh, well.


BTW, I didn't actually see the video, her motivation is unknown to me and I don't think I would posted the way I did before I had my daughter. So, take what you would, I agree with no censorship but not necessarily with access to children.

It would be fair enough if the woman was complaining about something like the comic you're describing, but she's not. She's complaining about an all-ages Marvel comic book with a woman in a bikini.

_______________________________

I too was allowed to read whatever I felt like it, and pretty much exclusively (I did love my Asterix books though :) ) read books aimed at adults from age 10 or 11 or so, even if a lot of them went over my head. It was at that age that I read Lord of the Rings, all six Dune novels (they definitely fell into the 'most of them went over my head' levels, but I lapped them up anyway!), and started reading Terry Pratchet and Stephen King. Since this is all stuff I continue to love today, I should probably also thank my parents. :)

[Karachi Vyce]

This is pretty funny..

"Mom Protests 'Sexual' Spider-Man Comic"
http://www.ketv.com/video/19030628/index.html

http://www.ketv.com/education/19030671/detail.html

How about banning JMS' Spider-Man issues because they just turned to shit.

Seriously, I really would like to punch that woman's dogs, and their little sweaters. Right in their little stomachs.

[vakie]

How about banning JMS' Spider-Man issues because they just turned to shit.

Seriously, I really would like to punch that woman's dogs, and their little sweaters. Right in their little stomachs.

Charming, as always.