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-   -   Star Trek Discovery (http://jmsnews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58903)

Ubik 10-02-2017 03:02 PM

Star Trek Discovery
 
Just watched Ep.3, and it's a massive improvement on the opening double episode. After the somewhat forced pomp and setup for the opening episodes I went into this one very cynical, and by the end of the ep, I found myself quite enjoying it. If this is the show going forward, I'm on board.

In fact, I'd venture to say that some of the writing reminded me a little of B5, it wasn't quite the grim and dark ST I was expecting to see, and I instantly liked some of the supporting cast. Tilly was kinda adorably by the end of the ep, and I think Saru has massive potential and I really dig the make up. The Alice in Wonderland references made me think of JMS / B5, it just seems like the kind of thing the show would have done. I just get that vibe...

Jury is out on Gabriel Lorca (captain), but I like that his character is not black and white thus far. If anything we are definitely meant to distrust him right now.

Some cool concepts (the mycelium) and ambiguous characters. Anyone else got any thoughts? Showing promise now.... It's definitely different from any previous Trek shows in tone.

sarthaz 10-02-2017 10:25 PM

I'm enjoying it. Sonequa was terrible on The Walking Dead, but she's a good fit here, and I like that it's a fully realized production with a story to tell. I don't know if I'll like that story, but I'm pleased to see it's not all amateurish and aww-shucks like Voyager and Enterprise. Lots of potential here -- I'll go along for the ride.

Ubik 10-09-2017 03:41 PM

Ep. 4.... very good!

Did anyone else see the navigator thing coming? Cool idea, I had it pegged during the first half of the episode.

I am also seeing a few clear arcs emerging, and I love it. Trek with proper character arcs. Nice to see it come into the modern age! It's faring far better than I could have hoped based on the lacklustre pilot. It's been a while since we've had a good old SF 'ship show', so I'm down with this.

Ubik 10-16-2017 01:38 PM

Ep5. Continues to be solid. Isn't the grim-dark show I feared it would be. Some lighter moments remind me of B5. Thumbs up. Also a nice 'diversity' reveal that was done really tastefully.

Ubik 10-18-2017 02:11 AM

I can't be the only one watching this? Surely?

Seen quite a lot of hate from the traditional Trek crowd, but personally I am glad it is doing its own thing. Another 'Enterprise', as watchable as some of that was, would not have cut the mustard.

sarthaz 10-18-2017 09:05 AM

I'm still watching. Episode 5 was the best so far. Characters started branching out from being raging assholes to actually doing some redeeming things. My biggest gripe with the show wasn't that it's dark, but that everyone on that ship is a jerk who makes stupid decisions to push the plot forward. 5 episodes in, and we've already had 2 major characters die because they refused to listen to Burnham and a 3rd who didn't die but just made an ass of himself. This was the problem Voyager had. Instead of making Janeway strong and consistent, they wrote everyone else on the ship as a moron. Burnham needs strong adversaries to be strong herself. Spore Guy is a good start (I can't remember any of these characters' names).

Ubik 10-19-2017 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarthaz (Post 156464)
I'm still watching. Episode 5 was the best so far. Characters started branching out from being raging assholes to actually doing some redeeming things. My biggest gripe with the show wasn't that it's dark, but that everyone on that ship is a jerk who makes stupid decisions to push the plot forward. 5 episodes in, and we've already had 2 major characters die because they refused to listen to Burnham and a 3rd who didn't die but just made an ass of himself. This was the problem Voyager had. Instead of making Janeway strong and consistent, they wrote everyone else on the ship as a moron. Burnham needs strong adversaries to be strong herself. Spore Guy is a good start (I can't remember any of these characters' names).

Thankfully, I think it's already far better than Voyager. I felt like we started to see the characters fall into place a bit more with this Ep. I like that the lines are a bit blurred with the captain and he's more of a 'grey' character with good and bad characteristics.

There have been a few instances of 'people doing dumb things'. I can live with it.

It's just faring better than I'd expected and i'm finding myself enjoying it. The last few eps have been waaay better than the pilot.

Kraig 10-19-2017 08:29 PM

Just as long as someone doesn't perform a level 3 diagnostic, or descend into technobabble to solve a problem, I'll be happy.

Jonas 10-21-2017 03:07 AM

I thought Ep. 3 was hilariously bad. The writing was just awful - at one point my wife was joking about how they're telling Burnham so little, they won't even tell her what the research she's working on is... and then that actually happened! Because you can totally analyze code without knowing what it does.

In general, the show seems designed to specifically destroy all the values Star Trek once represented. Even the reboot movies ended up doing better than that.

Jonas 10-31-2017 12:57 AM

Episode 4 was downright evil. It seems to deliberately do a Star Trek story - hey look, this creature isn't aggressive by nature after all - and then twists the ending so that the characters do that which they know to be wrong.

This entire show feels like someone wanted to destroy Star Trek.

Ubik 10-31-2017 03:27 PM

Personally, I am still enjoying it.

I am not going to get too hung up on what 'is' and 'isn't' Star Trek. A lot of people probably balked at the tone of some of the DS9 stuff, but it remains some of the strongest ST material out there.

I am giving this a fair chance, and it's been fun so far. I see too many fans getting hung up on what the show was, and not just evaluating this series on its own merits. I'm sure we could easily find holes in any number of TNG or TOS episodes if we look at it in the same way.

I think it has legs, and I'm warming to some of the crew now. It's far from perfect, but I know of very few SF shows that hit the ground running with their first season.

Triple F 10-31-2017 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubik (Post 158649)
Personally, I am still enjoying it.

I am not going to get too hung up on what 'is' and 'isn't' Star Trek. A lot of people probably balked at the tone of some of the DS9 stuff, but it remains some of the strongest ST material out there.

I am giving this a fair chance, and it's been fun so far. I see too many fans getting hung up on what the show was, and not just evaluating this series on its own merits. I'm sure we could easily find holes in any number of TNG or TOS episodes if we look at it in the same way.

I think it has legs, and I'm warming to some of the crew now. It's far from perfect, but I know of very few SF shows that hit the ground running with their first season.

Exactly. There was a lot of detractors and arm waving when TNG came out – and how it was different from TOS. Now this new one is different from TNG and the arms are being waved again – and quite often for much the same reasons. . . . . This isn’t what Trek is about and the Klingons look too different. : )

CBS putting it behind their own paywall for the US fans in order to promote a new viewing platform – while everyone else can see it on Netflix - was a big mistake though.

Jonas 11-01-2017 03:54 AM

I disagree. What defines Trek is a set of humanist values, of Enlightenment principles. That's what makes it good - certainly not the worldbuilding or anything else. And that's what's brought people to it for decades: a message of hope, of the possibility of a better future. I'm not going to claim the show has always managed to stick to that, especially in its later incarnations. But I think it's also incorrect to dismiss the ideological dimension of what Star Trek was intended to represent, and how much hope and strength it has given people over the decades. (If you listen to interviews with the actors, that's what comes up over and over.)

But I can also judge Discovery on its own merits: so far, it's badly-written and thoroughly reactionary. Maybe it gets better, but its very premise (if only we had engaged in preemptive warfare against the thinly-disguised Muslims afraid of assimilation!) is hideously immoral, and the writing is so silly that on occasion it's made me laugh out loud (you're going to work as a researcher on this, but we won't tell you what it is!).

Ubik 11-02-2017 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonas (Post 158693)

But I can also judge Discovery on its own merits: so far, it's badly-written and thoroughly reactionary. Maybe it gets better, but its very premise (if only we had engaged in preemptive warfare against the thinly-disguised Muslims afraid of assimilation!) is hideously immoral.

Really?!? I never once thought of reading the show in that way. I guess the Klingons were originally meant to depict communist China and Russia, so it'd be fitting for our times. However, it just didn't seem that overt to me. I hadn't drawn that parallel and certainly didn't feel the show was going for that. Something like BSG had closer parallels to the war on terror and extremism and was clearly intended that way. Also, they show Starfleet striving for a peaceful solution quite a few times, which to me seems to be in keeping with the internal moral code of Starfleet.

I think them not giving Burnham all the info to begin with is to do with trust issues and also to build some mystery and re-enforce the secrecy around the spore drive. How boring would the reveal have been if we / Burnham had just been told everything in an infodump? I didn't see it as stupid writing. Also worth bearing in mind that we are seeing a pre-TOS universe where Starfleet is still inexperienced. I kinda expect them to make mistakes on the ride to the kind of enlightened universe we see in TNG.

To me, the worst episode was the pilot (taken as a whole), and it's improved from there. I still find it eminently watchable and haven't felt the need to critically dissect it.

Curious what you made of Ep. 7 because it was just a whole lot of fun, and a proper good stand alone Trek episode.

Ubik 11-13-2017 04:04 PM

Mid-Season finale is a bit all over the shop... not sure I liked it much.

More when I have time. The only good thing seems to be that it might flip the series on its head, but unsure if these events will be temporary and quickly resolved.


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