JMSNews Community Site

Go Back   JMSNews Forums > Discussion > Babylon 5

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #31  
Old 10-13-2017, 07:03 PM
alpha128's Avatar
alpha128 alpha128 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeD80 View Post
Meditations on the Abyss; the Drazi put a bug in Vir's shopping bags.
That's right. I had forgotten about that. And now that you mention it, I recall that Londo had some sort of "bug detector".
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-13-2017, 10:03 PM
Looney's Avatar
Looney Looney is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle West U.S.
Posts: 1,249
Oh yeah. That is another good one.
__________________
Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-22-2017, 06:53 PM
alpha128's Avatar
alpha128 alpha128 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 406
"The Coming of Shadows"

I had explained back in Season 1 that each year of B5 has a title, and that one episode has the same title as its year, to emphasize its significance. I reiterated that fact, and then said that this was that episode for Season 2. I clicked through the chapter menus as quickly as possible, since one of them ("Sinclair's message") is a spoiler.

C seemed somewhat impatient, asking what season we were in, and how many seasons there were. I said there were five seasons total and we were in Season 2. Despite that, she still seemed to be engaged by the episode. At the end, while the ranger was telling Garibaldi that there was "one other" who knew about their presence on the station, she rose and started walking toward the kitchen with her cup. But she paused before leaving the living room to see who the "one other" was, only stepping away when the credits started to roll.

C also made a funny joke about G'Kar remarking, "He's part giraffe you know." Her comment when Sinclair appeared was "Hey, that's the old guy!" She also speculated during the opening credits that "the last of the Babylon stations" meant that the station would blow up at the end. I refused to confirm or deny the accuracy of her "mad prediction".

T chuckled at G'Kar's complaint that the emperor had the indecency to start dying on his own. As we neared the end, T said that he hoped that the future would be peaceful. I replied that the series had been promising all season that this was "the year the great war came upon us all." T asked me if all the ships in the show were computer generated and I said yes. He then said that the effects were impressive, to which I added, "especially for 1995", and he agreed.


"GROPOS"

I introduced this episode by explaining that GROPO was short for "Ground Pounder" and was the equivalent of an Earthforce marine.

C surprised me with her reaction to the news that Dr. Franklin was General Franklin's son. She said, "Wait a minute. Is Dr. Franklin black?" "Um, yes!" was my reply. Meanwhile, T laughed out loud when General Franklin said he needed 25,000 billets. He also laughed at the general's "So much for genetics" comment.

Later, when Dodger started kicking the crap out of Kleist and the others, T said, "You don't want to mess with her!" Still later when things started to get steamy between Dodger and Garibaldi, T asked, "Is this an R rated episode?" Knowing that Garibaldi was about to ruin the mood, I replied, "No."

Life seemed imitate art when it came to the end scene. Both C & T were silent.

Last edited by alpha128; 10-23-2017 at 04:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-25-2017, 09:56 AM
Looney's Avatar
Looney Looney is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle West U.S.
Posts: 1,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha128 View Post
"The Coming of Shadows"

I had explained back in Season 1 that each year of B5 has a title, and that one episode has the same title as its year, to emphasize its significance. I reiterated that fact, and then said that this was that episode for Season 2. I clicked through the chapter menus as quickly as possible, since one of them ("Sinclair's message") is a spoiler.

C seemed somewhat impatient, asking what season we were in, and how many seasons there were. I said there were five seasons total and we were in Season 2. Despite that, she still seemed to be engaged by the episode. At the end, while the ranger was telling Garibaldi that there was "one other" who knew about their presence on the station, she rose and started walking toward the kitchen with her cup. But she paused before leaving the living room to see who the "one other" was, only stepping away when the credits started to roll.

C also made a funny joke about G'Kar remarking, "He's part giraffe you know." Her comment when Sinclair appeared was "Hey, that's the old guy!" She also speculated during the opening credits that "the last of the Babylon stations" meant that the station would blow up at the end. I refused to confirm or deny the accuracy of her "mad prediction".

T chuckled at G'Kar's complaint that the emperor had the indecency to start dying on his own. As we neared the end, T said that he hoped that the future would be peaceful. I replied that the series had been promising all season that this was "the year the great war came upon us all." T asked me if all the ships in the show were computer generated and I said yes. He then said that the effects were impressive, to which I added, "especially for 1995", and he agreed.
It is so great that the scene where G'Kar is reporting he failed to assassinate the Emperor takes a light-hearted twist. I mean it is a dark moment when you are admitting you failed to murder someone, but JMS still puts a chuckle in there.

I would say it is worrisome that C was leaving the room before it was over, but it sounds like maybe she wasn't in the mood to sit for the episode and was impatient to get to something else. I mean this is not a boring episode, so it is good you were watching this one if she was feeling impatient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha128 View Post
"GROPOS"

I introduced this episode by explaining that GROPO was short for "Ground Pounder" and was the equivalent of an Earthforce marine.

C surprised me with her reaction to the news that Dr. Franklin was General Franklin's son. She said, "Wait a minute. Is Dr. Franklin black?" "Um, yes!" was my reply. Meanwhile, T laughed out loud when General Franklin said he needed 25,000 billets. He also laughed at the general's "So much for genetics" comment.

Later, when Dodger started kicking the crap out of Kleist and the others, T said, "You don't want to mess with her!" Still later when things started to get steamy between Dodger and Garibaldi, T asked, "Is this an R rated episode?" Knowing that Garibaldi was about to ruin the mood, I replied, "No."

Life seemed imitate art when it came to the end scene. Both C & T were silent.
So would you say they like this episode? I mean I think it is great, other than the bit with Dodger and Garibaldi. I understand why it is there and really I don't think it is out of place for Garibaldi or anything, I am just not particularly fond of their subplot. I feel like that time could have been spent in a more interesting way. In my opinion the bits with Keffer seem to be a more interesting way to deal with the GROPOS interaction with station personnel or at least a more interesting idea of how to deal with them.
__________________
Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-25-2017, 04:57 PM
alpha128's Avatar
alpha128 alpha128 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looney View Post
I would say it is worrisome that C was leaving the room before ("The Coming of Shadows") was over, but it sounds like maybe she wasn't in the mood to sit for the episode and was impatient to get to something else. I mean this is not a boring episode, so it is good you were watching this one if she was feeling impatient.
In C's defense, the episode was basically over when she stood up and started to walk away. The only thing that remained was Garibaldi and the ranger saying goodbye. That scene could be considered what Alfred Hitchcock called a "hat-grabber".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looney View Post
So would you say they like ("GROPOS")?
Yes, I think so. T certainly enjoyed the humor in the episode more than usual. He typically just chuckles a bit at the funny lines, e.g., G'Kar's complaint in "The Coming of Shadows". T laughed out loud heartily in "GROPOS". The last time he did that was at the elevator scene in "Signs and Portents".
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-04-2017, 06:13 PM
alpha128's Avatar
alpha128 alpha128 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 406
"All Alone in the Night"

I introduced this episode by saying it brought back some characters from the past (meaning General Hague and Neroon), and was famous for a dream sequence that hints at the future.

T remarked that Sheridan's question "What can possibly go wrong?" meant that something would certainly go wrong. During Ramirez's introduction in the Zocalo, T said something like, "So they still have the Dodgers?" After the space battle and abduction of the captain, T said, "Wow!" Later, when Sheridan awoke on the alien ship, T's comment was, "He's in a strange place."

This was C & T's twenty-second episode (we skipped "A Spider in the Web" and ten episodes from Season 1). Having now seen the equivalent of a full season, they are starting to comment on some of the details of show. This time T asked about the Starfury launch, and I explained how the rotation of the station carries them away. T also asked about the big opening at the front of the station and I explained that leads to the docking bays.

C asked a number of questions about the Narn (Talon). She asked if Sheridan and he were supposed to be friends, and if they already knew each other. I said that they had never met before. When Talon fainted, C asked if he had died, and I said, "No, he just passed out."

When Sheridan returned to the station and Kosh told him "You have always been here", C remarked "That's cryptic." I replied, "That's a Vorlon for you."


"Acts of Sacrifice"

I introduced this by saying, "As you recall, back in 'The Coming of Shadows', the Narn and the Centauri went to war. In this episode, you start to see the impact of that war." I also mentioned that this episode was famous for one scene and they would know it when they saw it.

And now, eleven episodes into Season 2, C finally spoke up about Keffer during the opening credits. She said, "Who's that guy? I don't think I've seen him in the show so far." And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, the "memorable" Warren Keffer! I said that I didn't think he was in this one, but I would point him out if he appeared. And I was right - no Keffer in this episode.

T was impressed by the assembled Narns and said it must have taken hours to make up all those people.

C asked how they got G'Kar's eyes so red and I said they used red contact lenses. C also asked about Sheridan's link, "Does he have a radio in his hand?" I replied that it was merely stuck to his hand, not implanted.

T laughed when the Lumati told Ivanova they would conclude their deal by having sex, but neither C nor T had any comment about "the Ivanova dance".

C was a bit mystified by G'Kar's reaction at the end of the episode...

C: Why is he laughing?

ME: He's laughing and crying.

C: Why is he doing that?

ME: Because he hoped they would intervene militarily.

After the episode, C asked why they didn't bring the murdered Centauri back from the dead. With a little questioning I determined that she had misremembered Garibaldi's recovery after being shot in the back. I explained that he was in a coma, not dead, and that they used the alien healing device only after they had done everything they could using conventional (twenty-third century) medicine to "push him over the edge" back to consciousness.

Last edited by alpha128; 11-06-2017 at 04:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-18-2017, 07:41 PM
alpha128's Avatar
alpha128 alpha128 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 406
In case you missed it, I posted C & T's reaction to "All Alone in the Night" and "Acts of Sacrifice" on 11-04-2017. And now on with the next update...

"Hunter, Prey"

Before starting this episode I reminded C and T of the conversation at the end of "All Alone in the Night", where General Hague told Captain Sheridan that his cooperation was essential if they were to take back Earth's government.

When the Vorlon ship displayed a written message to Kosh, C asked if the ship was sending a message, and I confirmed it was. And near the end, when the ship returned its passenger, T remarked that the cocooned Dr. Jacobs looked like "a giant potato".

At the conclusion of the episode, when Sheridan gave the data crystal to Sarah (Wanda De Jesus), C asked if she was a traitor. I replied that she was "one of the good guys." T's final comment was that the people behind the creature designs were very imaginative. I assume that he was referring to Kosh's ship, but he may have also been thinking about the pak'ma'ra that was briefly seen in Medlab.


"There All the Honor Lies"

I introduced this by saying it was, at its heart, a mystery episode.

Not a ton of commentary from C & T. The humor in the episode was right up T's alley, as he chuckled/laughed at every funny bit. T also went "ooh" went Ashan called Delenn a freak.

C brought up the "memorable" Warren Keffer again, and this time stated that she thought he was good looking. I told her he was in this one at the very end and pointed him out to her. Speaking of good looking, I paused the playback when Guinevere Corey appeared, and mentioned that was the same actress who played Na'Toth in Season 1. C said that she looked much better without her Narn makeup.

When Sheridan started walking away with the bear C said, "I'd keep him too, he's cute." I replied, "But that's not what he's going to do with him." Needless to say, C was upset that Sheridan spaced the bear.

Last edited by alpha128; 11-18-2017 at 07:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-20-2017, 03:14 PM
Looney's Avatar
Looney Looney is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle West U.S.
Posts: 1,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha128 View Post
"All Alone in the Night"

I introduced this episode by saying it brought back some characters from the past (meaning General Hague and Neroon), and was famous for a dream sequence that hints at the future.

T remarked that Sheridan's question "What can possibly go wrong?" meant that something would certainly go wrong. During Ramirez's introduction in the Zocalo, T said something like, "So they still have the Dodgers?" After the space battle and abduction of the captain, T said, "Wow!" Later, when Sheridan awoke on the alien ship, T's comment was, "He's in a strange place."

This was C & T's twenty-second episode (we skipped "A Spider in the Web" and ten episodes from Season 1). Having now seen the equivalent of a full season, they are starting to comment on some of the details of show. This time T asked about the Starfury launch, and I explained how the rotation of the station carries them away. T also asked about the big opening at the front of the station and I explained that leads to the docking bays.

C asked a number of questions about the Narn (Talon). She asked if Sheridan and he were supposed to be friends, and if they already knew each other. I said that they had never met before. When Talon fainted, C asked if he had died, and I said, "No, he just passed out."

When Sheridan returned to the station and Kosh told him "You have always been here", C remarked "That's cryptic." I replied, "That's a Vorlon for you."


"Acts of Sacrifice"

I introduced this by saying, "As you recall, back in 'The Coming of Shadows', the Narn and the Centauri went to war. In this episode, you start to see the impact of that war." I also mentioned that this episode was famous for one scene and they would know it when they saw it.

And now, eleven episodes into Season 2, C finally spoke up about Keffer during the opening credits. She said, "Who's that guy? I don't think I've seen him in the show so far." And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, the "memorable" Warren Keffer! I said that I didn't think he was in this one, but I would point him out if he appeared. And I was right - no Keffer in this episode.

T was impressed by the assembled Narns and said it must have taken hours to make up all those people.

C asked how they got G'Kar's eyes so red and I said they used red contact lenses. C also asked about Sheridan's link, "Does he have a radio in his hand?" I replied that it was merely stuck to his hand, not implanted.

T laughed when the Lumati told Ivanova they would conclude their deal by having sex, but neither C nor T had any comment about "the Ivanova dance".

C was a bit mystified by G'Kar's reaction at the end of the episode...

C: Why is he laughing?

ME: He's laughing and crying.

C: Why is he doing that?

ME: Because he hoped they would intervene militarily.

After the episode, C asked why they didn't bring the murdered Centauri back from the dead. With a little questioning I determined that she had misremembered Garibaldi's recovery after being shot in the back. I explained that he was in a coma, not dead, and that they used the alien healing device only after they had done everything they could using conventional (twenty-third century) medicine to "push him over the edge" back to consciousness.
Okay I don't know how I missed this installment for so long, but like most things I blame my laziness and the "Silly B5 Quote" thread.

WOW! Lots of interaction with these episodes.

Did you hint that Talon would return? (Hope not, though you will likely have to explain who he is when he reappears.)

The saddest thing about the Keffer comment is that you only recently watched GROPOS.

And I think as far as G'Kar laughing and crying it is because on the one hand he hoped they would intervene militarily, but he also learned he was not alone and there were others in his corner. He is dealing with a horrible situation and the frustration and satisfaction just couldn't be contained so they came out at the same time. It isn't the best case scenario he was hoping for, but he knows he has friends trying to do their best at great risk to themselves. Plus the whole being stabbed with a poison blade deal is causing him to be a bit emotional.

One thing we all know is true is that viewers need more than one viewing to pick up on a LOT of what B5 puts out there. My guess is that with them seeming to be fully engaged you are going to get a lot more questions about things like reviving the murdered Centauri. So much happens that I can see why people would confuse the events of the past.
__________________
Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-20-2017, 03:21 PM
Looney's Avatar
Looney Looney is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle West U.S.
Posts: 1,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha128 View Post
In case you missed it, I posted C & T's reaction to "All Alone in the Night" and "Acts of Sacrifice" on 11-04-2017. And now on with the next update...

"Hunter, Prey"

Before starting this episode I reminded C and T of the conversation at the end of "All Alone in the Night", where General Hague told Captain Sheridan that his cooperation was essential if they were to take back Earth's government.

When the Vorlon ship displayed a written message to Kosh, C asked if the ship was sending a message, and I confirmed it was. And near the end, when the ship returned its passenger, T remarked that the cocooned Dr. Jacobs looked like "a giant potato".

At the conclusion of the episode, when Sheridan gave the data crystal to Sarah (Wanda De Jesus), C asked if she was a traitor. I replied that she was "one of the good guys." T's final comment was that the people behind the creature designs were very imaginative. I assume that he was referring to Kosh's ship, but he may have also been thinking about the pak'ma'ra that was briefly seen in Medlab.


"There All the Honor Lies"

I introduced this by saying it was, at its heart, a mystery episode.

Not a ton of commentary from C & T. The humor in the episode was right up T's alley, as he chuckled/laughed at every funny bit. T also went "ooh" went Ashan called Delenn a freak.

C brought up the "memorable" Warren Keffer again, and this time stated that she thought he was good looking. I told her he was in this one at the very end and pointed him out to her. Speaking of good looking, I paused the playback when Guinevere Corey appeared, and mentioned that was the same actress who played Na'Toth in Season 1. C said that she looked much better without her Narn makeup.

When Sheridan started walking away with the bear C said, "I'd keep him too, he's cute." I replied, "But that's not what he's going to do with him." Needless to say, C was upset that Sheridan spaced the bear.
HAHAHA "potato" is a good way to describe it. I wish Wanda De Jesus had made a second appearance just for the sake of the intrigue. It would have been nice to see Sheridan have multiple interactions with someone from their group on a regular basis to establish it more firmly.

I definitely agree. The spaced bear is funny, but I feel like there is no way he would have done that. I can see him feeling like the store undermined the appearance of authority on B5, but I feel like an item like that would have been one he kept or sent to his sister or something.
__________________
Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-20-2017, 06:24 PM
alpha128's Avatar
alpha128 alpha128 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looney View Post
Okay I don't know how I missed this installment for so long, but like most things I blame my laziness and the "Silly B5 Quote" thread.
Be sure to click on the Babylon 5 forum link for all your C & T updates!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looney View Post
Did you hint that Talon would return? (Hope not, though you will likely have to explain who he is when he reappears.)
I don't recall dropping any hints about Talon's return. And yes, I will have to explain who he is when he returns next season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looney View Post
So much happens that I can see why people would confuse the events of the past.
I agree. That's why I sometimes remind them of past plot points as an introduction to the next episode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looney View Post
The spaced bear is funny, but I feel like there is no way he would have done that. I can see him feeling like the store undermined the appearance of authority on B5, but I feel like an item like that would have been one he kept or sent to his sister or something.
As we have learned, people with the initials "JS" hate cute.

Hmm. I wonder if Jeffrey Sinclair abused any stuffed gog toys during his stay on Minbar.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 11-20-2017, 07:19 PM
Jan's Avatar
Jan Jan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 13,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha128 View Post
As we have learned, people with the initials "JS" hate cute.
HEY! I don't *always* hate cute! Hrmph...

The 'other' JMS.
__________________
"Anyone who advocates for "alternative facts" has moved from the language of obfuscation to the language of tyranny." JMS Twitter Jan. 22, 2017
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 11-21-2017, 02:01 AM
Ubik's Avatar
Ubik Ubik is offline
Vorlon Visitor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: York, UK
Posts: 1,945
Cool to see them steadily engaging more with the show. I wonder if, by the end they'll be mega fans? By the time you hit the end of S3, I think you should have a good feel for if they love it or not. I always wonder what I’d make of the show if I came to it as an adult and not in my teens. My nostalgia colours my viewing quite heavily. I can overlook a lot of the little flaws because of that, in fact I kinda love the flaws.

I do wonder if I'd be so forgiving if I came to it fresh now. I wonder if I'd even make it through S1!? I probably would.
__________________
Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

Kosh: Good!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 11-21-2017, 03:55 AM
Jan's Avatar
Jan Jan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 13,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubik View Post
Cool to see them steadily engaging more with the show. I wonder if, by the end they'll be mega fans? By the time you hit the end of S3, I think you should have a good feel for if they love it or not. I always wonder what I'd make of the show if I came to it as an adult and not in my teens. My nostalgia colours my viewing quite heavily. I can overlook a lot of the little flaws because of that, in fact I kinda love the flaws.

I do wonder if I'd be so forgiving if I came to it fresh now. I wonder if I'd even make it through S1!? I probably would.
I was 39-ish when I encountered the show but I'm a fairly uncritical viewer. Do I like the characters? Am I interested in the story being told? That's good enough for me.
__________________
"Anyone who advocates for "alternative facts" has moved from the language of obfuscation to the language of tyranny." JMS Twitter Jan. 22, 2017

Last edited by Jan; 11-21-2017 at 03:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 11-21-2017, 10:53 AM
Looney's Avatar
Looney Looney is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle West U.S.
Posts: 1,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha128 View Post
Be sure to click on the Babylon 5 forum link for all your C & T updates!
Yeah that is why I said I was lazy. I come to the forums and see which forums have new posts. The problem is that so many people frequently post in that thread that it can appear for days that nothing is new, i.e. Melanie is the most recent post and maybe the last time I checked it was Melanie, but in fact someone else posted then Melanie again. So it tricks my brain into thinking nothing is new because over time it appears Melanie's one post is the only thing new. (Melanie is just a name I chose as an example because of the last post in that thread at the time of writing this.) Basically the point is that I have to instruct my brain to come to the main forum page and ignore that thread exists and click on the Babylon 5 forum every time. Or have that thread moved out of the Babylon 5 Forum to a place where it can no longer make me have to remember to ignore it and click the Babylon 5 Forum.

In all seriousness I do wonder how many Users fall into this same trap. You come to the main page. You see the most recent post in the Babylon 5 Forum was in the "Silly Conversation" thread. You see the ID is the same as the last time you checked the main page so you ignore clicking on the Babylon 5 Forum because it appears nothing is new when in reality there could be more. You saw a name as the most recent Babylon 5 Forum post.
Then other posts in the Babylon 5 Forum happened. Then that same person came back and posted in the "Silly Conversation" thread again making it appear nothing had changed because they became the most recent post on the main page. Anyone else think this or have heard other people make this same comment?

BTW, my initials are also J.S.

As far as seeing the show for the first time today I think the only reason I would stick with it through the first part of Season One is the visuals. Of course eventually the story would hook me.
__________________
Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

Last edited by Looney; 11-21-2017 at 10:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 11-21-2017, 02:03 PM
phazedout's Avatar
phazedout phazedout is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 886
Or you could just clock the "new posts" link at the top of the forum, which gives you all the posts you haven't read since you were last here.....
I shall admit i missed it for years as i wasn't really looking for it.
__________________
"There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.