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  #16  
Old 06-29-2017, 07:16 PM
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JMS downplays all his previous comments: https://twitter.com/straczynski/stat...85351651143680

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Knew no more full seasons were possible, avoided responding to inquiries re: 2-hour finale to avoid disappointment if things didn't work out
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Nope, I said exactly what I said: there would be no more seasons of the show. It's great to have a 1-shot 2-hour to wrap it up.
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Yes, I said both those, and I stand by them. It likely wouldn't get more (barely did), and not to get hopes up if it didn't.
Well, I am very happy fans didn't listen to him when he suggested they are wasting their breath, because if they had, this thread wouldn't even exist.

And I guess, he is still involved with the show, as this would had been the time to say otherwise.
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  #17  
Old 06-29-2017, 07:57 PM
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Looks like we were posting at the same time.
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Originally Posted by sense8ional View Post
And I guess, he is still involved with the show, as this would had been the time to say otherwise.
I tweeted to ask if the announcement meant that all the actors had signed on and if he'd be co-writing. We'll see if he answers.
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  #18  
Old 06-29-2017, 09:08 PM
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So if I am reading that correctly, he was being adamant about there being no more seasons without revealing there might be something else in the works is all that really happened there.

I am so relieved we're getting closure all around. Yes it would be great to continue, but if it isn't we at least get closure. I imagine it is going to be something REALLY special.
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  #19  
Old 06-30-2017, 03:42 AM
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I wish I could say "yes, this makes sense, JMS knew there was something being negotiated", but I cannot reconcile his tweets with him being well aware Lana was fighting for a special, at all.

As Jan noted on the 20th, he was asked about the possibility of a special and he said "There's no point speculating on what-ifs given the situation." As if even a special was absolutely out of the question. Yet.. here we are.

On the 22th he was asked if he knows Lana and Lilly are ok with him spoiling what would happen next on his twitter, and he said "Nobody's said a word of protest because with the show no longer moving ahead there's nothing to spoil." Literally the next day, Lana told a fan there's a chance of a special. Nothing to spoil?

In multiple tweets, little by little he hinted as many as 4 of the cast just straight up refused to sign their contracts, for personal reasons, and that's what killed the show before even getting to the budget vs viewership issue. Asked if the cast said no-no, or were they like negotiating and they could have said yes, later, he said "And no, once an actor on any show says no, there's no backsies." This contradicts Brian J. Smith's long letter which said he's not aware of any other reason than viewership that killed the show, and let me tell you, there's absolutely no chance in hell Smith wouldn't know that as many as 4!!! cast members straight-up refused to renew. No way. The only possible explanation would be that Smith was straight up lying to the fans.

I suppose if some cast members don't return I will rethink everything, but for now, my personal interpretation, is that JMS was out of the loop and his answers were his personal guesses based on his past experience, rather than knowledge of what was or was not going on between Lana <-> Netflix <-> cast.
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Last edited by sense8ional; 06-30-2017 at 03:44 AM.
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  #20  
Old 06-30-2017, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by sense8ional View Post
I suppose if some cast members don't return I will rethink everything, but for now, my personal interpretation, is that JMS was out of the loop and his answers were his personal guesses based on his past experience, rather than knowledge of what was or was not going on between Lana <-> Netflix <-> cast.

That’s a more telling - spot on - observation than you might realise. jms has a bit of a track record posting personal opinions or how he views a situation as facts.
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  #21  
Old 06-30-2017, 05:59 AM
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I suppose if some cast members don't return I will rethink everything, but for now, my personal interpretation, is that JMS was out of the loop and his answers were his personal guesses based on his past experience, rather than knowledge of what was or was not going on between Lana <-> Netflix <-> cast.
Which, if true, concerns me greatly. Very greatly. Because there's really no good reason why at least one of the equal partners in that company should ever have been out of the loop. And if he ends up not involved with the special, my interest in it plummets.
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  #22  
Old 06-30-2017, 06:24 AM
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All interesting, and somewhat muddled! I would think they need most, if not all of the cast back to make this work. If the action is go and it's been announced, I would expect those conversations to have already taken place. Plus, committing to a two hour special is easier than an entire season with a gruelling shooting schedule. Different bag me thinks, easier to work.

It is strange that there are contradictory stories and versions of what happened and why. JMS can sometimes get a bit impassioned during online conversations. He is generally factually correct, but can be a bit of a knob on occasion. I expect he will have stuck to the info he had available to him. Anyhow, I would think he'd be involved and be a key part of writing the special. His writing definitely balanced out the Ws work very well, JMS has a better feel for in depth characterisation and long form plotting.
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  #23  
Old 06-30-2017, 06:25 AM
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When I wrote the above, my theory was that he was being negative ("it's over, there's no point, let's move on"), so there was no point in involving him with the negotiations past a certain point. Of course I don't know shit!, that's just the first thought that crossed my mind, because granted, he was pretty negative about it. (Clarification: not about wanting to do more, but about there being a chance for more to exist). He is also involved with several other scripts, potential series, movies, while Lana has nothing else planned for the immediate future (as far as we know, anyway), so Lana perhaps had more time to do "unofficial" negotiations, you know, not inside an office as part of Unpronounceable Productions, but having lunch with select producers, or even meeting Max Riemelt in Paris, to change his mind (a popular theory about why they were spotted in a restaurant in Paris).

I would certainly like JMS to still be involved, but Lilly's departure means far more to me, and if I was able to handle that she stopped being involved for an entire season, I will certainly be able to handle JMS not being involved with a 2h episode. Although, for now, I do assume he is still involved, since he kinda backpedaled about his prior statements.
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  #24  
Old 06-30-2017, 08:47 AM
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I honestly don't care who knew what when (in regards to the sudden Sense8 announcement). I am just very glad it will have some kind of a wrap up. I actually have not finished the series, I've been so turned off by the idea that I'll be paying Netflix's monthly fee just to watch House of Cards.

Netflix has had a rocky history with its customers, to say the least. I'd say their administration is learning to listen to outcries and actually consider what they could do that wouldn't necessarily mean reversing their decision. Just softening the blow a bit and showing respect for their clients and their artistic creators.

On a side note: is it better to have an entity like Netflix cancel a show like Sense8 or to have an entity like (TNT? WB?) that tries to force the authors to rewrite it? I'd rather have short-lived, unique offerings that come from the creators' vision, I think. But it will be so much better with at least a kind of resolution. With possibilities of renewal in the future, perhaps?
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  #25  
Old 06-30-2017, 09:03 AM
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I've said this on another thread before and I'll say it here again: it's unwise to read too much into the statements made to the public. There's a lot that people like JMS can't say, and a lot that they have to be careful about saying lest they cause a negative reaction.

Studios are skittish at best; remember when Angel was cancelled because Whedon pushed for early renewal, even though it was a really successful show? I have little doubt that JMS would have said more if it made any sense.

So let's not try to weave these tweets and fragments of statements into a narrative about who feels how about Sense8. Instead let's be grateful that these awesome people get to continue/finish their awesome story.
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  #26  
Old 06-30-2017, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sense8ional View Post
I would certainly like JMS to still be involved, but Lilly's departure means far more to me, and if I was able to handle that she stopped being involved for an entire season, I will certainly be able to handle JMS not being involved with a 2h episode. Although, for now, I do assume he is still involved, since he kinda backpedaled about his prior statements.
Whereas I'm absolutely the opposite. Frankly, while the Ws have done some visually stunning things, their characterization, IMO, usually leaves a *lot* to be desired. Without JMS, I sincerely doubt that most of us would have cared for these characters nearly as much as we to.

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Netflix has had a rocky history with its customers, to say the least. I'd say their administration is learning to listen to outcries and actually consider what they could do that wouldn't necessarily mean reversing their decision. Just softening the blow a bit and showing respect for their clients and their artistic creators.
Or they figured out that the fans weren't going to stop hijacking their social media posts and sending them flip-flops!

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On a side note: is it better to have an entity like Netflix cancel a show like Sense8 or to have an entity like (TNT? WB?) that tries to force the authors to rewrite it? I'd rather have short-lived, unique offerings that come from the creators' vision, I think. But it will be so much better with at least a kind of resolution. With possibilities of renewal in the future, perhaps?
I would vote for the creator's vision. While it's romantic to postulate (as I've seen people do) that a good writer can make anything interesting, to me that's silly. Yes, a good writer can make something interesting out of whatever notes they're given but of necessity, it will lack the passion that would have been in the work if they'd been left to their own devices.

That said, I don't necessarily mean that reasonable restrictions are a bad thing. A good writer should be able to write within a decent budget. But as we saw with the Lost Tales, too much restriction that way will make the work suffer.
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  #27  
Old 06-30-2017, 10:24 AM
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Whereas I'm absolutely the opposite. Frankly, while the Ws have done some visually stunning things, their characterization, IMO, usually leaves a *lot* to be desired. Without JMS, I sincerely doubt that most of us would have cared for these characters nearly as much as we to.
Judging the Wachowskis characterization skills from the blockbuster films, is akin to judging JMS' plotting skills from Ninja Assassin. Or Whedon's from The Avengers: Age of Ultron.

There were two, award winning, writers involved with the second season, besides Lana and JMS, anyway, both of whom have re-tweeted the news of the revival. Even if JMS is not involved with the special, it doesn't necessarily have to be just Lana. But if he's involved, even better!
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  #28  
Old 06-30-2017, 11:41 AM
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Sense8ional :
I think you may be a bit harsh on JMS.
He is always very careful about what he says in public (did not want to set the hopes to high, incase the negotiations failed, as he wrote)
As I recall, he once said that when negotiations take place he will usually not say anything in public about that, since it could jeopardize the negotiations.

Jan :
A bit harsh on the Ws ? I am thinking of Cloud Atlas.
OK, you might argue that these are not the Ws' original characters ...
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  #29  
Old 06-30-2017, 12:31 PM
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Jan :
A bit harsh on the Ws ? I am thinking of Cloud Atlas.
OK, you might argue that these are not the Ws' original characters ...
That would be like invalidating all JMS' Superman, Spider-Man, etc. runs because the characters pre-existed his take. Doesn't make much sense, if you ask me!

Go watch Bound if you want good characterization by the Wachowskis and original characters. The Matrix films deal with archetypes (Neo is literally "The One", and half the characters are called "The" Architect, "The" Oracle, "The" Trainman, etc), there's not much room for characterization there, I'm afraid with that type of story. I can go through their filmography, but the point is of course a TV series gives them the opportunity to write characters in a way that films, and specifically blockbuster films, don't.

In creating Sense8, all three creators were equally important. If any of them had been replaced we would have a different series today. But in writing a 2h episode, well past the characters have been figured out, arcs have been devised, and so on, I don't think it's so much big of deal. You know most TV series do not have every single writer work on every single episode, right?! And they still manage to be consistent. Magic? Hardly.
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  #30  
Old 06-30-2017, 12:44 PM
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Actually, I think the Matrix trilogy is superb (*especially* Reloaded & Revolutions), and I love its characters deeply. Cloud Atlas is also a masterpiece. And the W's script for V for Vendetta is also superb.

But Sense8 is clearly something both the Wachowskis and JMS have been very passionate about for a long time, and I doubt it could exist as it does without all of them. The same is true of a finale.

Not that I think there is any indication whatsoever of JMS not being involved, or any kind of split between them. I think that's an illusion created by the fact that JMS is the only one with a social media account, and his cautious answers being misinterpreted.
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