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  #16  
Old 07-09-2018, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by alpha128 View Post
When he mentions "toxic fans", he calls it a false narrative that the media is spinning, and decries the lack of nuance in their coverage.
I think the toxic fans thread is totally fair and very justified. Just look at the online bullying which has resulted in many of the new cast retiring their twitter accounts. This is very real. Daisey Riley, John Boyega and Kellie Marie Tran have all suffered torrents of abuse, based either on their character in the film, or their ethnicity. Also worth considering that this surface recently.
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  #17  
Old 07-09-2018, 05:44 AM
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I think the toxic fans thread is totally fair and very justified. Just look at the online bullying which has resulted in many of the new cast retiring their twitter accounts. This is very real. Daisey Riley, John Boyega and Kellie Marie Tran have all suffered torrents of abuse, based either on their character in the film, or their ethnicity. Also worth considering that this surface recently.
No doubt there are toxic fans, and they deserve condemnation. However they are clearly in the minority.

However, you don't hear that from Lucasfilm and their defenders in the media. To them any Star Wars fan critical of their new films is "toxic". They are quick to reject any valid criticism and instead attack their customers. Alex Becker created the "potatoes" video which compares Lucasfilm to a bad restaurant to illustrate how Lucasfilm is dismissive and belligerent toward their customers.

And here is another video from Jeremy from Geeks + Gamers directly addressing the Ahmed Best story and condemning those who bully actors on-line.

However, because Jeremy was critical of "The Last Jedi", he has literally been attacked on Twitter as "racist and sexist" and as a "alt-right white power spouting crazy." This came to light in another video on the channel, which defended Jeremy, and was made by a half Asian contributor.

So yes, there has been on-line bullying by toxic Star Wars fans and I condemn it. But there has also been on-line bullying by Lucasfilm and their defenders and I condemn that too.
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  #18  
Old 07-09-2018, 06:44 PM
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I don't think it's about money.
I only mentioned the money thing because I imagine Hamill likely wanted a long term commitment for big money since he knows first hand just how much the franchise has made without him. [Not to say he has made a lot of money from the franchise.] So the more they used him the more he was going to want and he had the leverage. Ridley, Boyega, and Driver not so much leverage. Yeah they likely have very lucrative contracts, but they aren't Luke Skywalker. If someone wanted Luke Skywalker to have a three film arc then Mark Hamill was in a position to demand some serious dough! So they write around him and get rid of him before the end of the second movie. I'm not joking when I say there was likely some hardcore negotiating to have him appear briefly in The Force Awakens (2015). His lack of dialogue may have honestly been based on what he would have paid if he spoke. I know it is Disney and they have billions so it seem a bit ridiculous, but it isn't that ridiculous when you consider they can't guarantee how much they are going to make at the box office, [See example Solo] And it isn't ridiculous when you know how these people think. The more Hamill is in those movies the more power he has to negotiate the coarse of how much profit those executives make.
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  #19  
Old 07-10-2018, 12:48 AM
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Don't forget we always have Star Wars: Rebels, which has easily been the best new Star Wars since the original films.
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  #20  
Old 07-11-2018, 05:42 PM
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Now I'm sure many people have seen/heard about this recent announcement:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/...in-episode-ix/

If this ends up being the case, I'm wondering if it's an attempt to essentially bribe fans of the original trilogy to see episode 9?

Many of the reviews of the Solo Movie indicated that the Lando character was really done well, hence Lucasfilm wanting to bring that character into episode 9 to try and drive up numbers at the Box Office.

I know that there have been a lot of comments online already with regards to Lucasfilm treating that character "properly".

Is it just me, or is this whole Star Wars thing becoming like an off screen Soap Opera?
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  #21  
Old 07-12-2018, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Truth66 View Post
Now I'm sure many people have seen/heard about this recent announcement:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/...in-episode-ix/

If this ends up being the case, I'm wondering if it's an attempt to essentially bribe fans of the original trilogy to see episode 9?

Many of the reviews of the Solo Movie indicated that the Lando character was really done well, hence Lucasfilm wanting to bring that character into episode 9 to try and drive up numbers at the Box Office.

I know that there have been a lot of comments online already with regards to Lucasfilm treating that character "properly".

Is it just me, or is this whole Star Wars thing becoming like an off screen Soap Opera?
WHY... it's as bad as Lucas with the prequels. We don't care about Bobba Fett as a Kid. We don't care about Darth Vader as kid.

With the new Trilogy I honestly don't really care for seeing 'verging on retirement' versions of our favourite characters from the original Trilogy. Lando is meant to be young, dashing and charming, not 'getting on a bit'. Yeah, it's a BAD decision. Just do something good with the new characters for God's sake.

Alpha, I'm curious, did you watch Rebels? I loved that show. It had great characters, awesome believable force lore and ended perfectly too. It definitely shouldn't be dismissed because it was a cartoon. Also uses element of the EU very well.
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Last edited by Ubik; 07-12-2018 at 01:18 AM.
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  #22  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Truth66 View Post
If this ends up being the case, I'm wondering if Billy Dee Williams' return is an attempt to essentially bribe fans of the original trilogy to see episode 9?

Is it just me, or is this whole Star Wars thing becoming like an off screen Soap Opera?
The box office failure of "Solo" clearly spooked Lucasfilm, and they are worried Episode IX might underperform. I believe that Episode IX is dead on arrival and made a movie poster showing that.

That's not to say Episode IX won't make money, it will - but I predict Episode IX will make less than "The Last Jedi". Yes, "Return of the Jedi" made more than "The Empire Strikes Back" because it was the final chapter of the OT. But that's because "Empire" was a great movie that left audiences wanting more. "The Last Jedi", on the other hand, was an incredibly divisive film that left half the audience wanting more, and the other half saying, "That's it! I'm done with Star Wars!"

In addition, it seems that this whole Star Wars thing is becoming an on-screen Soap Opera: Episode IX Rumors - Star Wars Goes Full Twilight


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubik View Post
Alpha, I'm curious, did you watch Rebels? I loved that show. It had great characters, awesome believable force lore and ended perfectly too. It definitely shouldn't be dismissed because it was a cartoon. Also uses element of the EU very well.
Ubik, I never saw "Rebels". However you inspired me to check my cable system to see if it's available. Unfortunately, they start at Season 4 and don't have the earlier seasons.

Last edited by alpha128; 07-12-2018 at 05:07 AM.
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  #23  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:34 AM
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Ubik, I never saw "Rebels". However you inspired me to check my cable system to see if it's available. Unfortunately, they start at Season 4 and don't have the earlier seasons.
It has a clear arc, you need to see it in order for sure. I'll send you a Private Message, if you don't mind streaming it online...
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  #24  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:48 AM
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It has a clear arc, you need to see it in order for sure. I'll send you a Private Message, if you don't mind streaming it online...
That's OK, I'm not that interested. But thanks.
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  #25  
Old 07-12-2018, 06:36 AM
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That's OK, I'm not that interested. But thanks.
PM sent anyway. Seriously, you'd be missing out if you're a SW fan.
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  #26  
Old 07-12-2018, 09:17 AM
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Well I have to disagree about Lando. He is a character I always wanted to know more about. He was my second favorite part of SOLO. I have definitely thought he was a missing piece in these two recent episodes, but I always assumed it was due to Billy Dee Williams poor health; something I heard a long time ago.
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  #27  
Old 07-13-2018, 05:43 AM
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Well I have to disagree about Lando. He is a character I always wanted to know more about. He was my second favorite part of SOLO. I have definitely thought he was a missing piece in these two recent episodes, but I always assumed it was due to Billy Dee Williams poor health; something I heard a long time ago.
I just don't know how much mileage there is in these cameos where the characters are aged. Has seeing 'older' Chewie, Han, Luke and Leia really added any depth to their characters? I'd venture a resounding 'no'. In fact, I think a lot of fans would have preferred not to see the weird scenarios these characters have been shoehorned into in the new films. I would have preferred an all new cast from the outset. No Luke, No Han... just have them in the lore as legends past. Frees up storytelling no end and stops people getting too hung up on established characters being used in different ways.

I heard Donald Glover did a sterling job in Solo, so still curious to see that. I remain a bit cynical about bringing back the old actors.
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Last edited by Ubik; 07-13-2018 at 06:56 AM.
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  #28  
Old 07-13-2018, 08:04 AM
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I just don't know how much mileage there is in these cameos where the characters are aged. Has seeing 'older' Chewie, Han, Luke and Leia really added any depth to their characters? I'd venture a resounding 'no'. In fact, I think a lot of fans would have preferred not to see the weird scenarios these characters have been shoehorned into in the new films. I would have preferred an all new cast from the outset. No Luke, No Han... just have them in the lore as legends past. Frees up storytelling no end and stops people getting too hung up on established characters being used in different ways.

I heard Donald Glover did a sterling job in Solo, so still curious to see that. I remain a bit cynical about bringing back the old actors.
I say yes because I loved what the did with Luke in The Last Jedi (2017).

I say yes because I liked seeing Leia was still the crusader who had grown in wisdom.

I say yes because Chewbacca actually had some decent character moments in The Force Awakens (2015).

I am up in the air on Han.

I can see issues that came out of these scenarios being problematic, but overall I definitely think it all added to Luke, Leia, and Chewbacca's character depth. Now have they handled everything about adding these characters well, no. They turned Chewbacca back into a comic relief valve in The Last Jedi and made other poor choices when it came to what they did with these characters.

And just so we are clear, I fully believe that all of the new movies have been somewhat weak efforts. I just like to show support for the parts that I like about them.
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Last edited by Looney; 07-13-2018 at 08:06 AM.
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  #29  
Old 07-13-2018, 05:17 PM
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Has seeing 'older' Chewie, Han, Luke and Leia really added any depth to their characters? I'd venture a resounding 'no'.
And I agree, for reasons I've already posted on this site. There's no need to repeat myself.
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  #30  
Old 07-14-2018, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Truth66 View Post
Now I'm sure many people have seen/heard about this recent announcement:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/...in-episode-ix/

If this ends up being the case, I'm wondering if it's an attempt to essentially bribe fans of the original trilogy to see episode 9?

Many of the reviews of the Solo Movie indicated that the Lando character was really done well, hence Lucasfilm wanting to bring that character into episode 9 to try and drive up numbers at the Box Office.

I know that there have been a lot of comments online already with regards to Lucasfilm treating that character "properly".

Is it just me, or is this whole Star Wars thing becoming like an off screen Soap Opera?
Or, it could be that there really aren't any other characters from the originals to bring, lol. All the notable original characters are dead; in the case of Leia, the actress herself died unfortunately. Lando is the last remaining character that is alive (I don't consider Chewie, C3PO, and R2D2 as notable characters).
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