JMSNews Community Site

Go Back   JMSNews Forums > Discussion > Movies

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #46  
Old 01-05-2018, 04:57 PM
sarthaz sarthaz is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 153
This hits home with what bothers me about some of the criticism. There are many things to dislike about this film, and I don't fault anyone for having negative feelings about it. But a lot of the criticism seems to be specific denial of what Star Wars is. Calling Rey a "Mary Sue" is chief among these. Next up is complaints about spatial physics. Are they serious? What Star Wars have they been watching? Long excursions that add little to the story, furry aliens to sell product, wise-cracking Jedi who've gone into seclusion in their old age, unexplained backstories for major characters. It's OK if you don't like the film, but don't list a bunch of hallmarks of the franchise and then tell me this film sucks because of them.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 01-07-2018, 12:10 PM
phazedout's Avatar
phazedout phazedout is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 891
Teh followng link contains many spoilers but there's none in the title.

I did enjoy the movie, but as i said earlier having seen it in 3-d thought it was way too dark and struggled to see things in some scenes, ncie to seel skelligmichael though, yay ireland.

https://bittergertrude.com/2018/01/0...-agree-on-why/
__________________
"There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 01-07-2018, 01:12 PM
sarthaz sarthaz is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by phazedout View Post
Teh followng link contains many spoilers but there's none in the title.

I did enjoy the movie, but as i said earlier having seen it in 3-d thought it was way too dark and struggled to see things in some scenes, ncie to seel skelligmichael though, yay ireland.

https://bittergertrude.com/2018/01/0...-agree-on-why/
I hate this article. It's all straw-(wo)men. I've had many discussions with people online and in-person, and these are not their complaints. For example, the problem with Holdo is that she's written poorly. We've been told for 2 films that Poe is the "best pilot in the resistance", clearly has favored-nation status with General Leia, and has proven himself to be impulsive and sacrificial; but Holdo is deliberately obtuse and dismissive of his reasonable concerns in the way bad writing creates entire plots that could be avoided with 15 seconds of conversation. This would be true if she were a man or a Porg.

But that's a minor complain. Most people who dislike this film start (and end) their complaints with how they handled Luke. People are mad at his choices. People are mad at his character arc. People say, "My Luke would never do that!!!" I disagree with them, and I like the way Luke was portrayed, but those complaints have nothing to do with race or gender.

We have real race and gender issues in our culture, but this article diminishes its goals by glossing over the legitimate issues people have with this film, and it grossly oversimplifies the reactions of millions of people.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 01-08-2018, 02:03 AM
Ubik's Avatar
Ubik Ubik is offline
Vorlon Visitor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: York, UK
Posts: 1,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarthaz View Post
I hate this article. It's all straw-(wo)men. I've had many discussions with people online and in-person, and these are not their complaints. For example, the problem with Holdo is that she's written poorly. We've been told for 2 films that Poe is the "best pilot in the resistance", clearly has favored-nation status with General Leia, and has proven himself to be impulsive and sacrificial; but Holdo is deliberately obtuse and dismissive of his reasonable concerns in the way bad writing creates entire plots that could be avoided with 15 seconds of conversation. This would be true if she were a man or a Porg.

But that's a minor complain. Most people who dislike this film start (and end) their complaints with how they handled Luke. People are mad at his choices. People are mad at his character arc. People say, "My Luke would never do that!!!" I disagree with them, and I like the way Luke was portrayed, but those complaints have nothing to do with race or gender.

We have real race and gender issues in our culture, but this article diminishes its goals by glossing over the legitimate issues people have with this film, and it grossly oversimplifies the reactions of millions of people.
Yes. I fully agree it can lean too far the other way too. I've seen a few instances of folks trying to 'out-feminist' each other, and it sometimes crosses the line into plain silly. I think the argument applies primarily to the Rey criticisms, which is perhaps more a Force Awakens thing. The new film, yes, it has some VERY sloppy plotting, and the Holdo / Poe is fairly dumb. Of course the Rebel Alliance top brass don't communicate with each other!? Why would they do that?! I understand the anger coming from hardcore fans. I took it as a big dumb action movie in space, and it did just fine for me on those terms. But yeah, it's far from perfect and the more I discuss it, the more I see the problems.
__________________
Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

Kosh: Good!

Last edited by Ubik; 01-08-2018 at 02:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 01-08-2018, 09:14 AM
sarthaz sarthaz is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubik View Post
Yes. I fully agree it can lean too far the other way too. I've seen a few instances of folks trying to 'out-feminist' each other, and it sometimes crosses the line into plain silly. I think the argument applies primarily to the Rey criticisms, which is perhaps more a Force Awakens thing. The new film, yes, it has some VERY sloppy plotting, and the Holdo / Poe is fairly dumb. Of course the Rebel Alliance top brass don't communicate with each other!? Why would they do that?! I understand the anger coming from hardcore fans. I took it as a big dumb action movie in space, and it did just fine for me on those terms. But yeah, it's far from perfect and the more I discuss it, the more I see the problems.
I get that they're trying to teach Poe a lesson, but come on.

It's interesting how all our reactions seem to change with time. I think that speaks to how embedded this franchise is into our core, and for most people directly associated with childhood memories. For me, the flaws were glaring when I first saw it. But with time, those things started to fade and the brilliance of its deeper story took prominence. By my second viewing, I found I had gone from "Meh" to "I think I love this movie". Others, however, seem to have gone from "I guess that was fun" to "Ugh ... I think I hate this".

A good friend of mine hated it, and he explained to me how Luke Skywalker is his childhood hero. I realized in that moment that Luke wasn't my hero. Jim Kirk is more likely my childhood hero. I've seen the Star Wars films literally hundreds of times, but they're just fun to me, and I've always preferred Han and Leia to Luke anyway. Luke's boring. He goes from whiny farm-boy to distant self-important bore, and I've never really gotten that excited about him. So the new film doesn't attack anything I hold particularly dear in my childhood heart. In fact, I think they finally make Luke worth caring about. But if Luke's your spirit animal, I can see how it pokes at things you don't want poked at.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 01-08-2018, 06:10 PM
alpha128's Avatar
alpha128 alpha128 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarthaz View Post
For me, the flaws were glaring when I first saw it. But with time, those things started to fade and the brilliance of its deeper story took prominence. By my second viewing, I found I had gone from "Meh" to "I think I love this movie". Others, however, seem to have gone from "I guess that was fun" to "Ugh ... I think I hate this".
I went from "that was bad" (4/10) to "that was horrible" (2/10), all based on one viewing. The more I thought about the movie, analyzed it, and recognized all the missed opportunities, the more I hated it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarthaz View Post
A good friend of mine hated it, and he explained to me how Luke Skywalker is his childhood hero. I realized in that moment that Luke wasn't my hero. Jim Kirk is more likely my childhood hero. I've seen the Star Wars films literally hundreds of times, but they're just fun to me, and I've always preferred Han and Leia to Luke anyway. Luke's boring. He goes from whiny farm-boy to distant self-important bore, and I've never really gotten that excited about him. So the new film doesn't attack anything I hold particularly dear in my childhood heart. In fact, I think they finally make Luke worth caring about. But if Luke's your spirit animal, I can see how it pokes at things you don't want poked at.
In her analysis of The Last Jedi Bad Audience Score, Grace Randolph suggests there are two kinds of genre fans: those who like Luke Skywalker and Superman vs. those who like Han Solo and Batman. I think this may be a female perspective. Personally, I'm a fan of both Luke Skywalker and Batman.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 01-08-2018, 11:48 PM
sarthaz sarthaz is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha128 View Post
In her analysis of The Last Jedi Bad Audience Score, Grace Randolph suggests there are two kinds of genre fans: those who like Luke Skywalker and Superman vs. those who like Han Solo and Batman. I think this may be a female perspective. Personally, I'm a fan of both Luke Skywalker and Batman.
Wow. She's terribly annoying. I'll just trust your summary, because there's no way I can sit through that. Seems like a gross oversimplification, though. I'm sure there are people who only love the boring do-gooders and those who only want bad-boy in their heroes, but I don't see it as an either-or demarcation.

For me, I'd say I'm Han Solo and Batman, but for different reasons. In the case of Han, he has the better actor and the better lines, and he makes the movie fun. I don't know that Han is better than Luke in a vacuum, but in those films with those actors, I pick him. In the case of Batman, it's actor/film/comic-independent. Batman's just a much more interesting character than Superman, regardless of the scenario.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 01-09-2018, 04:28 AM
Ubik's Avatar
Ubik Ubik is offline
Vorlon Visitor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: York, UK
Posts: 1,978
All this makes me wonder what the hell the Han Solo film is going to be like.
__________________
Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

Kosh: Good!
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 01-09-2018, 06:17 AM
alpha128's Avatar
alpha128 alpha128 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubik View Post
All this makes me wonder what the hell the Han Solo film is going to be like.
Even if "Solo" turns out to be decent, it's going to have an uphill climb.

The audience rating for "The Last Jedi" at Rotten Tomatoes is now 49%. In addition, the narrative has turned negative, with articles and videos popping up with clickbait titles like, "Is Star Wars Dead?".

The creator of the video I linked to even has a nickname for "Solo" - "Oh No". "The Last Jedi" backlash has created an environment where it is now fashionable to bash "Star Wars".
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 01-11-2018, 05:31 AM
Jonas's Avatar
Jonas Jonas is offline
[Zathras Conspiracy]
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: A hollow duck in orbit around Ganymede.
Posts: 697
I don't particularly idealize Star Wars, but I think TLJ is one of the worst-written movies I've ever seen. It feels like the person who wrote it doesn't even understand the basic principles of how to structure a story. And I don't buy that it's somehow "unusual" and original - it's just awful and incoherent.

What it feels like is one of those plots written by an algorithm. Like they fed the previous movies into a computer and it rearranged them into this. (It's the scene where Luke vanishes like Obi-Wan! But he doesn't! But he does!) Also, I would argue that Kylo Ren might just be the very worst character I have ever seen in any work of fiction. The movie's an incoherent mediocrity, but Kylo really stands out in the supreme idiocy of his conception and execution.

It doesn't commit the violence to the original story that the The Force Awakens did (destroying everything they achieved, not even being able to understand the concept of restoring the Republic), but TFA was at least a coherent series of events.

Then again, I like the prequels, so I'm clearly in the minority.
__________________
Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

Last edited by Jonas; 01-11-2018 at 04:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 01-11-2018, 01:56 PM
phazedout's Avatar
phazedout phazedout is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 891
I'm going to see it again, tomorrow, in 2-D this means, hopefully, I won't emerge with a headache and/or streaming eyes from squinting at the too dark screen for half the movie through 3-D glasses.
__________________
"There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 01-11-2018, 08:46 PM
sarthaz sarthaz is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by phazedout View Post
I'm going to see it again, tomorrow, in 2-D this means, hopefully, I won't emerge with a headache and/or streaming eyes from squinting at the too dark screen for half the movie through 3-D glasses.
It may be your theater. First time I saw it was 3-D, and it was crisp and clear. Second time was 2-D, and it was 30% darker and really hard to make out some scenes.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old Yesterday, 04:47 PM
Looney's Avatar
Looney Looney is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle West U.S.
Posts: 1,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarthaz View Post
It may be your theater. First time I saw it was 3-D, and it was crisp and clear. Second time was 2-D, and it was 30% darker and really hard to make out some scenes.
WOW! It might be your theater. That is the exact opposite of every 3D experience I or anyone I know has had with 3D. Some of my friends won't go to 3D showings anymore just because it seems darker than the 2D showings. I can't speak to that fact with this movie because I have only seen the 3D version, but I will say this 3D version did seem crisper and brighter than many 3D experiences I've had before. Of course the technology is always improving, but I've yet to come across any example where the 3D version seemed brighter than the 2D version. I know when I saw The Force Awakens in 3D with 8 of my friends, 6 of them complained that the screen was too dark. But the point is, sarthaz, that I just want to argue the point because I've never heard anyone make that claim before. I don't doubt that you are telling the truth, but we need some pot-stirring around here right. lol
__________________
Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.