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  #16  
Old 07-11-2017, 06:17 AM
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Same here. While I think Sense8 will end up being remembered as one of the great masterpieces of our time, I do long to see a show that is structurally more like B5.
I think Sense8 will be remembered as one of the most inclusive series for this era of TV, but as much as I enjoyed it, I think it's very far from a masterpiece. It's definitely an an interesting show, but far from perfect and has it's share of flaws IMHO. Could be that I'd feel differently at the end of a 5 year arc, but it just doesn't feel as intelligently plotted an arc as B5 did, and too many of the characters still feel a bit shallow to me, even after 2 seasons. But that's probably a whole other thread / conversation!
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Last edited by Ubik; 07-11-2017 at 06:54 AM.
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  #17  
Old 07-11-2017, 07:14 AM
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Oh, heck, B5 was about as flawed as it gets with logic holes you could throw a cow through! "Far from perfect" and "has its share of flaws" are the marks of storytelling that takes risks.
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  #18  
Old 07-11-2017, 07:41 AM
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Oh, heck, B5 was about as flawed as it gets with logic holes you could throw a cow through! "Far from perfect" and "has its share of flaws" are the marks of storytelling that takes risks.
Oh yeah, not saying B5 is perfect either! Not by a long shot. But I think terms like 'masterpiece' or 'genius' are thrown around too liberally these days. I think Sense8 does well to do things that other shows aren't doing. Not sure that adventurous storytelling necessitates flaws though. You can have consistency, quality and still push the envelope. But yeah, creating any piece of fiction is hard and writers are just human beings. It also comes down to personal taste too.

Addendum: In fact, come to think of it, both shows are flawed, but endearingly so, and if they fail on occasion, they at least have the decency to fail in interesting ways.
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Last edited by Ubik; 07-11-2017 at 08:03 AM.
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  #19  
Old 07-13-2017, 03:18 PM
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I should say that I don't throw the term "masterpiece" around easily, but I do think Sense8 deserves it. We'll just have to agree to disagree about its flaws.

Has anyone else started missing shows with longer seasons, by the way? Almost everything I'm watching has 12 episodes now, and frequently it's just not enough to properly develop the characters.
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:42 PM
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I should say that I don't throw the term "masterpiece" around easily, but I do think Sense8 deserves it. We'll just have to agree to disagree about its flaws.
Each to their own. I think Sense8 has plenty of merit, but doesn't quite hit the 'masterpiece' mark for me. I'd have trouble putting it alongside something like say, 'The Wire' and calling them equal. I think that's probably still my benchmark for 'masterpiece TV' full stop.

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Has anyone else started missing shows with longer seasons, by the way? Almost everything I'm watching has 12 episodes now, and frequently it's just not enough to properly develop the characters.
I'm actually a big fan of the 10 -12 episode format. I feel it forces tighter writing and better arcs. I think a show like Sense8 would have benefitted from longer seasons with the ensemble cast, as it stands I still feel like we could have done with less characters with the shorter season format.

I think the main issue I have with the standard 26 episode USA style season length is that shows become prone to slighly sub standard filler episodes. That said, I have to admit that it does allow for some nice character moments, and gives scope to explore different styles of storytelling. Hard to think of any shows in that format that don't have episodes I tend to skip though.
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Last edited by Ubik; 07-13-2017 at 03:50 PM.
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  #21  
Old 07-13-2017, 04:24 PM
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Has anyone else started missing shows with longer seasons, by the way? Almost everything I'm watching has 12 episodes now, and frequently it's just not enough to properly develop the characters.
Very much! I'm *so* desperately tired of people referring to character moments and episodes as 'filler'! If I wanted a thriller, that's what I would have sought out. I don't care for those and have no use for shows being formatted as though they were.
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  #22  
Old 07-13-2017, 08:38 PM
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On balance, got to got with the shorter format. Especially after the first or second season.

I’ve watched a fair few shows now that had a great premise, actors, story, etc. for the first couple of seasons, then one of two things tend to happen. The bugger gets cancelled. Or it proves to be popular so the writers begin to artificially extend the story beyond it’s natural length until enough folk get fed up with it . . . then it gets cancelled.

The beginning middle and end – then walk away – approach by jms was spot on, and incredibly rare. Shorter season lengths just feel tighter and to some extent remove those filler episodes to extend the story.
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  #23  
Old 07-14-2017, 03:12 AM
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Very much! I'm *so* desperately tired of people referring to character moments and episodes as 'filler'! If I wanted a thriller, that's what I would have sought out. I don't care for those and have no use for shows being formatted as though they were.
This is all highly dependant on the show and how it's structured though. Sense8 is chock full of character moments despite the shorter season length, it just makes room for them. Is that detrimental in this shorter format? Perhaps, in part it is, as Sense8 is trying to balance 8 distinct spinning plates. But, it does find room for character exploration, even if I it does have to pick and choose who gets the central narrative(s) each season.

When I say 'filler', I more mean episodes that don't quite hit the quality they should. Perhaps the best example, 'clip episodes' in shows like Stargate and TNG, where they re-hash clips from past episodes in some kind of paper thin context. Or episodes that add next to nothing to either character development or plot of the show. For instance, Person of Interest, great show, but you could have cut about 20 episodes from the entire run and it would have been just as good.

I think there's a lot to be said for having to use all your air time wisely and in the service of character development AND ongoing plot. This doesn't necessarily make it a 'thriller', it's all about your internal pacing too, a show can be gradual and dreamy, even with an 8 episode season (see The OA). It's down to how the writers use the allocated space wisely.
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Last edited by Ubik; 07-15-2017 at 10:09 AM.
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  #24  
Old 08-19-2017, 05:47 PM
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Asked about the status of Midnight Nation, JMS just posted:

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Thanks. Making some small, last-minute tweaks to the pilot script, then Universal takes it out to the larger market to see what happens.
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  #25  
Old 08-21-2017, 12:50 PM
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Asked about the status of Midnight Nation, JMS just posted:
Ohhh, exciting. Hope it gets picked up.
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