JMSNews Community Site

Go Back   JMSNews Forums > Discussion > TV Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16  
Old 07-11-2017, 05:17 AM
Ubik's Avatar
Ubik Ubik is offline
Vorlon Visitor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: York, UK
Posts: 2,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
Same here. While I think Sense8 will end up being remembered as one of the great masterpieces of our time, I do long to see a show that is structurally more like B5.
I think Sense8 will be remembered as one of the most inclusive series for this era of TV, but as much as I enjoyed it, I think it's very far from a masterpiece. It's definitely an an interesting show, but far from perfect and has it's share of flaws IMHO. Could be that I'd feel differently at the end of a 5 year arc, but it just doesn't feel as intelligently plotted an arc as B5 did, and too many of the characters still feel a bit shallow to me, even after 2 seasons. But that's probably a whole other thread / conversation!
__________________
Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

Kosh: Good!

Last edited by Ubik; 07-11-2017 at 05:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-11-2017, 06:14 AM
Jan's Avatar
Jan Jan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 13,511
Oh, heck, B5 was about as flawed as it gets with logic holes you could throw a cow through! "Far from perfect" and "has its share of flaws" are the marks of storytelling that takes risks.
__________________
"Fascism always comes in quietly, holding a flag in one hand and a holy book in the other, inching its way in. The bugles and drums only sound after they've already taken over and believe it's too late to do anything about it." JMS Twitter Dec. 24, 2017
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-11-2017, 06:41 AM
Ubik's Avatar
Ubik Ubik is offline
Vorlon Visitor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: York, UK
Posts: 2,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan View Post
Oh, heck, B5 was about as flawed as it gets with logic holes you could throw a cow through! "Far from perfect" and "has its share of flaws" are the marks of storytelling that takes risks.
Oh yeah, not saying B5 is perfect either! Not by a long shot. But I think terms like 'masterpiece' or 'genius' are thrown around too liberally these days. I think Sense8 does well to do things that other shows aren't doing. Not sure that adventurous storytelling necessitates flaws though. You can have consistency, quality and still push the envelope. But yeah, creating any piece of fiction is hard and writers are just human beings. It also comes down to personal taste too.

Addendum: In fact, come to think of it, both shows are flawed, but endearingly so, and if they fail on occasion, they at least have the decency to fail in interesting ways.
__________________
Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

Kosh: Good!

Last edited by Ubik; 07-11-2017 at 07:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-13-2017, 02:18 PM
Jonas's Avatar
Jonas Jonas is offline
[Zathras Conspiracy]
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: A hollow duck in orbit around Ganymede.
Posts: 713
I should say that I don't throw the term "masterpiece" around easily, but I do think Sense8 deserves it. We'll just have to agree to disagree about its flaws.

Has anyone else started missing shows with longer seasons, by the way? Almost everything I'm watching has 12 episodes now, and frequently it's just not enough to properly develop the characters.
__________________
Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-13-2017, 02:42 PM
Ubik's Avatar
Ubik Ubik is offline
Vorlon Visitor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: York, UK
Posts: 2,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
I should say that I don't throw the term "masterpiece" around easily, but I do think Sense8 deserves it. We'll just have to agree to disagree about its flaws.
Each to their own. I think Sense8 has plenty of merit, but doesn't quite hit the 'masterpiece' mark for me. I'd have trouble putting it alongside something like say, 'The Wire' and calling them equal. I think that's probably still my benchmark for 'masterpiece TV' full stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas
Has anyone else started missing shows with longer seasons, by the way? Almost everything I'm watching has 12 episodes now, and frequently it's just not enough to properly develop the characters.
I'm actually a big fan of the 10 -12 episode format. I feel it forces tighter writing and better arcs. I think a show like Sense8 would have benefitted from longer seasons with the ensemble cast, as it stands I still feel like we could have done with less characters with the shorter season format.

I think the main issue I have with the standard 26 episode USA style season length is that shows become prone to slighly sub standard filler episodes. That said, I have to admit that it does allow for some nice character moments, and gives scope to explore different styles of storytelling. Hard to think of any shows in that format that don't have episodes I tend to skip though.
__________________
Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

Kosh: Good!

Last edited by Ubik; 07-13-2017 at 02:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-13-2017, 03:24 PM
Jan's Avatar
Jan Jan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 13,511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
Has anyone else started missing shows with longer seasons, by the way? Almost everything I'm watching has 12 episodes now, and frequently it's just not enough to properly develop the characters.
Very much! I'm *so* desperately tired of people referring to character moments and episodes as 'filler'! If I wanted a thriller, that's what I would have sought out. I don't care for those and have no use for shows being formatted as though they were.
__________________
"Fascism always comes in quietly, holding a flag in one hand and a holy book in the other, inching its way in. The bugles and drums only sound after they've already taken over and believe it's too late to do anything about it." JMS Twitter Dec. 24, 2017
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-13-2017, 07:38 PM
Triple F Triple F is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 508
On balance, got to got with the shorter format. Especially after the first or second season.

I’ve watched a fair few shows now that had a great premise, actors, story, etc. for the first couple of seasons, then one of two things tend to happen. The bugger gets cancelled. Or it proves to be popular so the writers begin to artificially extend the story beyond it’s natural length until enough folk get fed up with it . . . then it gets cancelled.

The beginning middle and end – then walk away – approach by jms was spot on, and incredibly rare. Shorter season lengths just feel tighter and to some extent remove those filler episodes to extend the story.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-14-2017, 02:12 AM
Ubik's Avatar
Ubik Ubik is offline
Vorlon Visitor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: York, UK
Posts: 2,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan View Post
Very much! I'm *so* desperately tired of people referring to character moments and episodes as 'filler'! If I wanted a thriller, that's what I would have sought out. I don't care for those and have no use for shows being formatted as though they were.
This is all highly dependant on the show and how it's structured though. Sense8 is chock full of character moments despite the shorter season length, it just makes room for them. Is that detrimental in this shorter format? Perhaps, in part it is, as Sense8 is trying to balance 8 distinct spinning plates. But, it does find room for character exploration, even if I it does have to pick and choose who gets the central narrative(s) each season.

When I say 'filler', I more mean episodes that don't quite hit the quality they should. Perhaps the best example, 'clip episodes' in shows like Stargate and TNG, where they re-hash clips from past episodes in some kind of paper thin context. Or episodes that add next to nothing to either character development or plot of the show. For instance, Person of Interest, great show, but you could have cut about 20 episodes from the entire run and it would have been just as good.

I think there's a lot to be said for having to use all your air time wisely and in the service of character development AND ongoing plot. This doesn't necessarily make it a 'thriller', it's all about your internal pacing too, a show can be gradual and dreamy, even with an 8 episode season (see The OA). It's down to how the writers use the allocated space wisely.
__________________
Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

Kosh: Good!

Last edited by Ubik; 07-15-2017 at 09:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-19-2017, 04:47 PM
Jan's Avatar
Jan Jan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 13,511
Asked about the status of Midnight Nation, JMS just posted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMS
Thanks. Making some small, last-minute tweaks to the pilot script, then Universal takes it out to the larger market to see what happens.
__________________
"Fascism always comes in quietly, holding a flag in one hand and a holy book in the other, inching its way in. The bugles and drums only sound after they've already taken over and believe it's too late to do anything about it." JMS Twitter Dec. 24, 2017
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-21-2017, 11:50 AM
Ubik's Avatar
Ubik Ubik is offline
Vorlon Visitor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: York, UK
Posts: 2,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan View Post
Asked about the status of Midnight Nation, JMS just posted:
Ohhh, exciting. Hope it gets picked up.
__________________
Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

Kosh: Good!
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-03-2018, 09:49 AM
Jan's Avatar
Jan Jan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 13,511
As noted, JMS has been tweeting a lot lately. This was among them:



Crap!
__________________
"Fascism always comes in quietly, holding a flag in one hand and a holy book in the other, inching its way in. The bugles and drums only sound after they've already taken over and believe it's too late to do anything about it." JMS Twitter Dec. 24, 2017
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-03-2018, 11:36 AM
Triple F Triple F is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 508
I don’t mean to be critical, I *really* don’t, but WTF. If this is to be believed in essence telling a studio like Universal to go screw yourself you’re not ruining my vision - AFTER they have agreed to pick up his comic book as a tv series and the pilot script was commissioned and written - really the best way to get some productions under Studio jms’s belt, and build up its street cred. What sort of street cred is he after.

He’s neither a naive newbie to the industry or a high profile creator who can push his weight around, so again, WTF. Maybe it wasn’t the studio, he only says he pulled the rights back (apparently he could do that, if this is to be believed) so whoever the disagreement was with they were big enough (important and influential enough) that he couldn’t just ignore them. . . Sigh. I dunno.

At this point it’s looking more and more like a B5 movie or new series – in jms’s lifetime at least – is nothing more than a pipedream at this point. Something to throw out there on a quiet news day.

Last edited by Triple F; 06-03-2018 at 11:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-04-2018, 04:04 AM
Jan's Avatar
Jan Jan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 13,511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple F View Post
He’s neither a naive newbie to the industry or a high profile creator who can push his weight around, so again, WTF. Maybe it wasn’t the studio, he only says he pulled the rights back (apparently he could do that, if this is to be believed) so whoever the disagreement was with they were big enough (important and influential enough) that he couldn’t just ignore them. . . Sigh. I dunno.
In general options on properties are in one-year increments with options to renew. IMDb shows the first details on the project as Jan. 22, 2017 so it's likely that he declined to renew the option. We saw a similar situation with TMOS where the option was extended for a short time while they tried to arrange funding but eventually lapsed.

I'm not going to argue with an artist who's willing and able to stand up for his artistic vision.
__________________
"Fascism always comes in quietly, holding a flag in one hand and a holy book in the other, inching its way in. The bugles and drums only sound after they've already taken over and believe it's too late to do anything about it." JMS Twitter Dec. 24, 2017
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-04-2018, 04:44 AM
Triple F Triple F is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 508
Ah, learned something new with that yearly renewal thing.

I get the artist willing to stand up for his artistic vision, and duly admire that. But he’s also a producer trying to build up his own production company – and a big part of that back in the day was how he hoped to do cross media adaptations of things like his comic work. That’s unlikely to happen if he tells those who’s money he wants to spend it’s my way or the highway. Get some productions under his belt, get some muscle then sure, but . . . . . argh, it’s his game, he can play it how he likes.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-04-2018, 06:43 AM
Looney's Avatar
Looney Looney is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle West U.S.
Posts: 1,386
Well this does not seem that odd to me given the history of JMS' optioned properties. I mean we should be honest and point out that he might just be trying to save face after once again his property is optioned and once again it didn't get off the ground. Isn't that possibly the third or fourth time for Midnight Nation alone? It sounds better to say that he pulled back the rights because it was going the wrong direction rather than saying the studio pulled the plug because they lost interest again. And I totally believe JMS' version of events, but I wouldn't blame him for embellishing if it went the other way. Saying it this way would help him save face professionally because believe me these people know when your properties get optioned and never made. They know the more that get optioned then don't get made the worse it looks for you. My guess is the studio would be perfectly fine with this version being the version of events that gets put out in the public eye.
__________________
Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.