So, back in 1992...

[vacantlook]

I don't know how long ago it was, but some time back I was reading through a bunch of jms's old posts -- and I mean old. There was one that I came across from back in 1992 that contained something that intrigued me.

I've been trying to come up with a very off-beat plot turn to pull in
seasons 3 or 4 (assuming we ever GET that far, again, I'm working all this out
in advance and hoping for the best), and this morning I came up with something
SO neat, SO unusual, I practically slipped in the shower. It's something that
has never, EVER been done in an SF series involving a major character. And
boy, will this have major ramifications! Too bad I have to wait so long to
pull it off.

I wonder what it was that he's talking about there.

[SmileOfTheShadow]

My guess is Garibaldi being a Judas?

[vacantlook]

Originally Posted by SmileOfTheShadow

My guess is Garibaldi being a Judas?

I wonder if he'd really consider Garibaldi's betrayal "SO unusual" though since he had planned on having Takashima betray our heroes by being a Psi Corps plant. His idea in the quote could be regarding Takashima maybe, but I thought he had only planned to keep her through season two, not season three or four.

[RMcD]

Yeah, that's true, Takashima's betrayal would have been at the end of season 1 and her Russian deputy / replacement would have taken over at the start of season 2, although this post could have been written before all the exact details of timing were set in stone. It could also have been written before he came up with the idea of Takashima's betrayal, but after he'd decided on what Garibaldi would do in season 4.

Other guesses - obviously Sheridan 'dying' and finding he only had 20 years to live, Kosh's death, G'Kar losing his eye (less likely), Delenn's transformation (again that was season 2 though), or perhaps something planned for Lyta, Sinclair or Sakai that we never saw because reality intervened..

[Morden]

My best guess would also be the entire Garibaldi-/Bester-stotyline. Garibaldi didn't just betray Sheridan & co, he was kind of re-programmed, the PSI-Corps messed up his entire personality, and JMS kept this thread going until late season 4, and the aftermaths are still plot points in Season 5. I think that IS quite unusual.

Other guesses would be Sheridan's death on Z'Ha'Dum, but I doubt it since there is so much foreshadowing to that event, and as faszinating as it is pulled off in B5, the entire hero-returning-from-grave-idea is not that new in scifi/fantasy.
I've read somewhere that killing of Kosh was a decision JMS made much later, maybe even when he was writing the season 3 scripts, so it can't be that.

So, still Garibali in my opinion, or - as mentioned above - something that never made it into the actual filming of the show (like Takashima, later Sinclair, who knows).

Maybe someone could ask JMS directely on the Board...?

[RMcD]

Originally Posted by Morden

I've read somewhere that killing of Kosh was a decision JMS made much later, maybe even when he was writing the season 3 scripts, so it can't be that.

I think it was always in the plan, but that it wasn't originally going to happen as early as Interludes and Examinations (there's a JMS post on it somewhere which came up on one of these threads recently).

How about Bashir turning out to be genetically engineered? That had pretty major ramifications. (Or am I getting my wires crossed somewhere? )

[Jan]

Originally Posted by RMcD

How about Bashir turning out to be genetically engineered? That had pretty major ramifications. (Or am I getting my wires crossed somewhere? )

Bashir? Dr. Bashir was on DS9... Unless you mean Byron or Bester and telepaths in general?

Hopefully all will be revealed in Volume 15.

Jan

[Spoo Junky]

I thought it might be killing a main character. Originally it may have been Sinclair but it was changed (obviously) to Sheridan. Back then, I don't think many main characters died. They'd say *Someone Will Die* and it turns out to be a minor character.

That kind of story happens all the time in soaps, but I don't remember any in SciFi at the moment. Where there any like that?

* sorry, RMcD, I see you already mentioned that one 8o

[RMcD]

Originally Posted by Jan

Bashir? Dr. Bashir was on DS9... Unless you mean Byron or Bester and telepaths in general?

Nah, just a misguided attempt at humour.. Sorry if I spoiled DS9 for anyone who actually hasn't got round to checking out the competition yet. I also hear Sisko's mother was an alien..

[Susitcha]

I am sure someone else will know if the timeline fits or not, but is it possible that this is where he decided Sinclair's ultimate fate?

i.e. him being Valen

[vacantlook]

Originally Posted by Morden

My best guess would also be the entire Garibaldi-/Bester-stotyline. Garibaldi didn't just betray Sheridan & co, he was kind of re-programmed, the PSI-Corps messed up his entire personality, and JMS kept this thread going until late season 4, and the aftermaths are still plot points in Season 5. I think that IS quite unusual.

But then again, is that so unusual given Takashima because her betrayal was going to come out of the Psi Corps having implanted in her the Control personality, which was plot moved to Talia after Takashima's departure. This was in '92 before casting had been done, so maybe jms had planned on having Takashima's betrayal occur later in the show but moved it up due to who was cast in the role; he had said Tamlyn Tomita was good for the role in part specifically because her career plans made her interested in moving on from the show after a couple of years.

Do we know whether Garibaldi was always going to betray our heroes, or is that one element of the Control personality plot that got reworked for him when both Takashima and Talia fell through? It is a good plot, so I can see why jms would want to rework it to keep as much of it as he could in the story.

[Jan]

From what I've seen in the script books when JMS has given us some of the ideas that he had for a season that he was running by the WB liason, it wasn't unusual for him to have an idea for something to happen but not necessarily have it nailed down as to who was going to do something (or have something happen to them). Similarly, those who've read the B5 Bible have seen how some character traits were slid from one character to another when it actually came time to write the script (and cast the character, for that matter).

Oh, what I'd give to get my hands on that notebook of his with the cards/notes!

Jan

[Jan]

BTW, for those of you who might not be getting the script books or who haven't read them all, I'm not trying to be a tease. Let me know and I'll try to look up some examples of what I referred to above.

Jan

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by Jan

BTW, for those of you who might not be getting the script books or who haven't read them all, I'm not trying to be a tease. Let me know and I'll try to look up some examples of what I referred to above.

Jan

I know that you get a cut of the books you sell.

Seriously though, I would love to hear some examples. But that's how I roll.

[Jan]

Okay, I'm always a little leery about how much I should copy from the books since, unlike his posts, JMS has definitely not given permission for that to be copied Here's a couple:

A band of ships has been preying upon
freighters carrying goods and expensive items
from one planet to another. Learning that a
particularly inviting target is currently on
B5, they attempt to steal the item. When
things go wrong, the station is threatened and
attacked, and Sinclair leads a squadron of
fighters in pursuit of the raiders, battling
them into surrender.

This was originally called 'Raiding Party' and became 'Signs and Portents'. As we know now, the 'inviting target' was The Eye and instead of Sinclair battling them into surrender, Ivanova chases them away and the Shadows destroy the raider ship.

Here's an early description of 'Born to the Purple':

An exotic dancer -- half alien, half human --
is "persuaded" to help several businessmen
find a way to blackmail Londo. (They need
help to run otherwise illegal goods into the
Centauri sector.) She does what they want at
first, but finally backs out, partly after
getting to know Sinclair, for whom she
develops a considerable attraction. Knowing
that she is now a danger to their operation,
the businessmen hire someone to take her out,
with Sinclair and Londo in an odd team working
to stop them.

I like the way it actually turned out *much* better!

In both of these, the sense of the episode was there but the details changed a fair amount. And finally, anybody else think this might be an early description of Kosh's ship?

Organic ship. Visitor is only extension of
ship's intelligence.

All of this and *more* available to you at Babylon5Scripts.com! Hurry, this offer won't last for long! (at least that part's true)

Jan