When's the Blu-Ray !?

[JoeD80]

Originally Posted by Garibaldi's Hair

IIRC, the film stock of B5 was damaged in storage and the early seasons in particular were fairly noisy as a result ... something not entirely solved in making the DVDs.

In that case, not only would the CGI have to be re-done from scratch because the original files are lost, but significant funds would need to be spent on repairing the fillm stock to prepare it for HD release.

There was damage to the pilot film that jms ran into when he did the special edition. Don't know if the damage occurred to the other episodes as well. There are also flaws on the film that show up in a digital transfer, but those flaws wouldn't look worse on the BluRay than they did on the DVD (or they'd be the same size anyway).

Originally Posted by Garibaldi's Hair

Not only will Fox have made sure to retain the CGI so it could be re-rendered (or whatever the correct term is) into HD, but they may well have had a HD release in mind even when the show was made.

That just isn't true for B5.

Well WB was supposed to make sure the CGI for B5 was retained too; they just failed at it. Also, jms *did* have HDTV in mind, mentioning it as early as 1993:

We are shooting in 16:9 aspect ratio, cutting it down to normal TV aspect ratio for its initial broadcasts. When a) the laserdisks are in time released, and b) when HDTV becomes more of a standard, the full letterboxed aspect ratio will be available

We're not shooting on videotape, so it's kind of a moot point. We're shooting on film, which can be converted to HDTV standards *very* easily. The pixel density is a function of where you go once you decide to convert the film. It's now being converted to video at standard resolution; when HDTV comes into existence commercially, the film will be reprocessed out and transferred to video at that level.

[Ranger 6 and 7/8]

Originally Posted by JoeD80

There was damage to the pilot film that jms ran into when he did the special edition. Don't know if the damage occurred to the other episodes as well. There are also flaws on the film that show up in a digital transfer, but those flaws wouldn't look worse on the BluRay than they did on the DVD (or they'd be the same size anyway).



Well WB was supposed to make sure the CGI for B5 was retained too; they just failed at it. Also, jms *did* have HDTV in mind, mentioning it as early as 1993:

JoeDm
I do remember those quotes.
Sadly, those were made under the assumption WB, who owned them, would take proper care to ensure they would not be damaged...well, you see how that went.
Kind of like owning a Rembrandt and putting it on display at a museum. Sure the museum takes out insurance on it for you and assures you that it will be protected so no damage comes to it.
Then a fire breaks out and by freak accident the fire suppression system fails resulting in the entire wing your Rembrandt was in to be a complete loss. The museum come to you with the insurance check for your Rembrandt and says "who knew?" and walks away counting the money they are making off the reprints from your original, which you will get nothing for...GRRRRR

[Garibaldi's Hair]

I take your point Joe but that is JMS' perspective not WB's. If WB didn't have the smarts to see HDTV was coming and the inclination to protect the film and CGI stock for future release in that format, then it really matters not what JMS' approach was. Given their apparent reluctance to even release the show on DVD, I find it hard to believe that they had it lurking in the back of their minds that they might one day want to make an HD version.

Firefly, on the other hand, was probably slated for potential HD release from day one.

[JoeD80]

Originally Posted by Garibaldi's Hair

I take your point Joe but that is JMS' perspective not WB's. If WB didn't have the smarts to see HDTV was coming and the inclination to protect the film and CGI stock for future release in that format, then it really matters not what JMS' approach was. Given their apparent reluctance to even release the show on DVD, I find it hard to believe that they had it lurking in the back of their minds that they might one day want to make an HD version.

Firefly, on the other hand, was probably slated for potential HD release from day one.

Sure, Joe said "I'd like this to be on HD someday, so I have a plan in mind to convert the film and CGI later, but I won't bother telling WB about it." Surely WB knew, or they wouldn't have been budgeting it for jms to have been "doing a complex audio mix and delivering conformed negatives for the purpose of working in the HDTV mode"

[Garibaldi's Hair]

Originally Posted by JoeD80

Sure, Joe said "I'd like this to be on HD someday, so I have a plan in mind to convert the film and CGI later, but I won't bother telling WB about it." Surely WB knew, or they wouldn't have been budgeting it for jms to have been "doing a complex audio mix and delivering conformed negatives for the purpose of working in the HDTV mode"

But, as has been pointed out so many times on this board before, WB is not a single, coherent entity. What WB (the studio that financed and made the show) intended would spring from the show, and what WBHV (the part of the organisation responsible for putting stuff out on VHS/DVD/Blu-Ray) decide to do with it are two completly different things.

Them not talking to each other about what was going to happen in the future is not only possible, but extremely likely given what we have seen from WBHV over the years, where B5 is concerned.

They were reluctant to put the show out on VHS (although the market in the US was less developed for the release of whole TV shows in those days), then they were so reluctant to spend the money putting the show out on DVD that they did a budget-free, single disk release to see whether there was any interest in it, and so on.

That does not sound like an organisation that planned ahead for what formats it may release the show in.

[JoeD80]

Originally Posted by Garibaldi's Hair

Them not talking to each other about what was going to happen in the future is not only possible, but extremely likely given what we have seen from WBHV over the years, where B5 is concerned.

They were reluctant to put the show out on VHS (although the market in the US was less developed for the release of whole TV shows in those days), then they were so reluctant to spend the money putting the show out on DVD that they did a budget-free, single disk release to see whether there was any interest in it, and so on.

That does not sound like an organisation that planned ahead for what formats it may release the show in.

Yeah, that's true. I guess home video didn't even think the episodes would be worth releasing early on and Columbia House was the one doing it instead, so you're probably right that they wouldn't know anything about HD plans

[KoshN]

Originally Posted by JoeD80

There are also flaws on the film that show up in a digital transfer, but those flaws wouldn't look worse on the BluRay than they did on the DVD (or they'd be the same size anyway).

Yes, kinda gotta wonder why WHV didn't even clean up the worst of the scratches (in many scenes), hairs (a huge one in the Talia/Ivanova bar scene at the end of "Midnight on the Firing Line"), and what looked like a fountain pen splash of black ink across the frame (IIRC in a Garibaldi scene, can't remember the ep.) that showed up on the DVDs, especially in Seasons 1 & 2. Guess they didn't give a damn. Not very professional.

[raw_bean]

I do dream of one day a full restoration and CGI reworking being done on the series, but I have to accept it's extremely unlikely to happen, at least any time soon.

However, what seems a much more plausible prospect - and one I'd welcome as someone who falls into the 'I really loved it despite how cheap it was and looked' category - is a Blu-ray release of The Lost Tales. I'm a bit ticked off that only XBox360 users get to see the only Hi-Def B 5 release to date.

[circularREASON]

yeh but if u play lost tales on ps3 it upscales pretty well doesn't it? (1080i as opposed to 1080p)

[oldjoe5]

Originally Posted by circularREASON

yeh but if u play lost tales on ps3 it upscales pretty well doesn't it? (1080i as opposed to 1080p)

Upscaling != HD

[NotKosh]

Originally Posted by JoeD80

This was the idea of the whole thread -- Blu-Ray is fast moving away from being a niche market to the *standard*, now that the latest "format wars" have died down.

I disagree. Blue-Ray is currently in Laserdisc territory. The geeks have it. Joe Six Pack took 5 years to get into DVD. Until JSP owns HD sets, he won't care about the increased quality of Blu or HD-DVD (RIP). Also throw in the fact that some JSPs did get burned by the death of HD-DVD. The cost of Blu-Ray is prohibiting its widespread acceptance. Also throw in crappy 1st gen Blu-Ray players that weren't upgradeable. Between the format wars, the price, the way Sony screwed the pooch on the initial Blu-Ray rollout, Blu-Ray isn't going anywhere but nicheville for a while.

Oh, and also include upscaling players that get you better than SD resolution. Given how long it took the Wallmart consumer to buy into SD-DVD, they aren't going to be forking over the dough to upgrade all the movies they just bought for Blu-Ray. And that is the way they will see it. Heck, I have stopped buying SD of recent movies I want, because I know I will be going Blu-Ray.

[JoeD80]

Originally Posted by NotKosh

Also throw in crappy 1st gen Blu-Ray players that weren't upgradeable. Between the format wars, the price, the way Sony screwed the pooch on the initial Blu-Ray rollout, Blu-Ray isn't going anywhere but nicheville for a while.

oldjoe5 and I already had a discussion about this above. I think I said everything I have to say about that already, except I will point out that there were plenty of crappy 1st-gen DVD players as well.

Originally Posted by NotKosh

Oh, and also include upscaling players that get you better than SD resolution. Given how long it took the Wallmart consumer to buy into SD-DVD, they aren't going to be forking over the dough to upgrade all the movies they just bought for Blu-Ray. And that is the way they will see it. Heck, I have stopped buying SD of recent movies I want, because I know I will be going Blu-Ray.

I'm sure the people who bought Betamax early on were disappointed later and didn't want to change, but they had to buy VHS eventually. As you say, even you are not going to be buying SDVDs any more because you're going to be holding out for BluRay, so why wouldn't most other people hold out for BluRay as well? The format wars are over and BluRay won. If the studios do it right, they can entice people to buy BluRay replacements.

[JoeD80]

Market share for last 3 weeks:

10%, 11%, 12%

looks good. October one of the best months for Blu-Ray so far.

[oldjoe5]

It's been up at 13% as well, so can't say those market shares are anything atounding. Mark my words, years will pass before blu-ray will be the dominant format - if ever, before it is replaced by a new format.

[JoeD80]

Originally Posted by oldjoe5

It's been up at 13% as well, so can't say those market shares are anything atounding. Mark my words, years will pass before blu-ray will be the dominant format - if ever, before it is replaced by a new format.

Yes, steady increases in market share for the past month as well as increasing revenues almost every week since August means nothing about the actual market .