Dennis, what the hell is this "abuse of celebrity" you cite here?
And what the hell is with this comparison of murdering people? Are you
seriously equating telling people about Harlan's book with murder? Because
that's what you say in response to Blair's note that it's supportive of a
friend. "So is killing your friend's enemies." That's a horeshit
and inappropriate metaphor, and you've *got* to know that.

And "abusing" celebrity...please define that for me, Dennis, because
I'd like to know, specifically, what we're talking about without resorting
to loaded language and jingoism and catchphrases. My mandate for what to
discuss here is pretty damned broad, from where I sit, and I noted in a
prior note the ways in which this is NOTHING different than what has been
done here before, consistently, in non-directly-B5 related ways.

When it came to keeping out story ideas, rather than moderate this
group, I went to a moderated feed to my mailbox, because I didn't want to
inconvenience this group. I spend *hours* a day here, sometimes as many
as five hours at a shot, over the course of a day, and I don't ask for
squat in return, I don't ask for personal favors except the non-story idea
deal which is professional not personal, I answer *endless* questions
about TV production, and the industry, many of which have NOTHING to do
with B5 except that they're both television media...and you're telling me
that the one time I want to do something for someone who works on this
show, you're gonna bust my chops and accuse me of abusing my position?

I've taken a lot of cheap shots in my time in this forum, but this
one has to take prize. Totally aside from everything noted in the
paragraph immediately preceding this one, there was absolutely NOTHING
unjustified or inappropriate in that message, given what's gone before.
Nothing.

Hell, there have been order forms for the soundtrack posted here,
prices and phone numbers, forms to give to stores to order the comic or
the soundtracks, I look at the message headers and there's someone giving
the ISBN numbers for my prior books which have nothing to do with B5...I
haven't seen anybody say one damned word about any of that. This is
absolutely NO different.

Give me a fucking break already. This is ridiculous.

jms

To Robert Merritt: I hear your concern. My only thoughts on it,
are that it really isn't a contradiction on Harlan's views on ST, since
it's very vehement about what happened, and why, and includes the text
of the TV Guide piece, so you know right off that it's totally
consistent with his prior statements.

The other thing is the notion of what he's said about people on
the Internet...this has been blown out of proportion. He has been often
and consistently ill-used by some people on the nets who have used this
great technology to put together anti-Ellison groups, to harrass and
chivvy him at every turn; it has led to fax bombs, abusive mail, harmful
rumors, even threats of various sorts, so you can, I think, understand
why his feelings are not bunny-rabbit cute toward us.

At the same time, though, he has never, to my knowledge anyway,
dismissed ALL netters; he's addressed his concerns to the venal and
petty dysfunctional (of which we know a few here in our own neck of the
woods) who *abuse* the technology. Heck, he's even begun diving into
the water lately, doing some on-line conferences to better educate
himself on the process. So I don't think we should take his comments
directed at a portion of the users, and extend them to include everyone
here, because I don't believe that is the intent or purpose of the
message from Harlan. Just a thought for you....

jms

John Robinson: yeah, sometimes I get a little long-winded...it
probably would've been more effective if shorter, but I just get all
excited about something some times, like this book, and before I know
what happened, I'm looking at paragraphs, I tell you, whole
PARAgraphs....and then I get confused and fall down.

jms

"He (Harlan Ellison) needs the bucks for his medicare payments."

Robert Holland...Harlan makes well into six figures annually.

So let's talk about *your* income now, shall we?

And if that strikes you as a cold, mean-spirited comment...you had
it coming.

jms

Robert Holland: my, how venal you get, how you imply and weasel
around the truth. And, frankly, just lie.

"He (Harlan) dislikes fans of any kind. Including his own." This is
an outright fabrication.

I *very* rarely mention stuff for sale on here, except in response
to requests from others. Further, the #1 comment from people is that
they would like more merchandise. Why is there so little? Because for
2 years, I've dragged my heels, resisted and held back on merchandising,
because I don't want it to get out of hand. This is a matter of
longstanding public record. So much for your "sell sell sell" notion.

"I had the impression Ellison's limited-press book wasn't selling
well through regular channels." Impossible, since the book isn't even
on the STANDS yet. Further, one of the reasons for putting the word out
was that they were fast running out of copies...of the 1,000 run limited,
only about 300 remained availabe, and those were gone quickly, so the
limited is sold out. Since most of these were being grabbed up by
collectors and others, none of whom tend to frequent the net, I figured
I'd put the word out to others who might now know before they were all
gone. So, so much for THAT bit of fabrication.

"(Harlan) writes scripts, then takes his name off when he doesn't
like the editing." This is standard WGA policy if a writer feels that
the end result does not reflect his intent, and he doesn't mind burning
the occasional bridge. Where in here is the problem? That's his right.
Same right attendent upon ALL WGA members, and used by many. So what?

"The oddest thing is that Ellison isn't writing any scripts for
B5...he must have some resentment or disagreement with the arc...very,
very strange."

No, there's nothing odd or strange here, except in that venal little
pea-pod you consider your cranial cavity. Harlan is up to his ears in
other work, putting out a monthly comic over which he sees every single
tiny aspect, writing for other shows (including the new anthology cable
series "Hunger," for which series several leading directors are now
vying for his completed script), a bunch of new short stories, getting
the "City" book out the door, getting "Slippage" out the door, getting
through two angioplasties and substantial earthquake damage which caused
personal injuries...AND serving on B5 as consultant.

If he had a problem with anything, he wouldn't keep signing on
every year. On the one hand, you chastize him for taking his name off
projects if they're not to his liking, then assume somehow he's working
on and lending his name to something not of his liking. That you cannot
see the paralogia and fuzzy logic there is breathtaking.

Harlan, in short, has a life.

You may want to consider acquiring one of your own...preferably not
one modeled after the Borgias, which seems your current inclination.

jms

Dennis: you consider Harlan a "bigot" because he thinks some netters
are stupid, ignorant, flame-baiting, offensive, venal, vindictive,
spiteful little web-weasels.

Yeah, Dennis, you know, you're right...looking at some of the notes
that've come my way, I can't *imagine* where he EVER got a notion like
that...it can ONLY be bigotry, can't POSSIBLY be true.

Thank you for clearing this up.

jms

You know when you can tell that one side of an argument has gone
belly-up? When they resort to inappropriate metaphor.

"Well, what if jms posted a Get Rich Quick letter? Or molested a
fan in an elevator? Or committed murder? Or bombed the World Trade
Center? Or...or...or...."

Because they cannot logically defend the area that is under debate,
they attempt to redefine the debate to something that is indefensible,
and *totally* irrelevant. It's not "What if X did Y," it's "Here's X,
and let's just discuss what DID happen, not what might happen in
somebody's fevered imagination."

This is SO stupid....

jms

Robert Holland: in one message from you, you take a shot at Harlan's
income (or what you perceive as his income), saying "He needs the bucks
for his medicare payments."

But then, when I turn the question back to you, and your income, you
say, "of the many measures of a man, income is nominal."

So which is it, Robert? Or is it only irrelevant when it's you, and
relevant when it's somebody at whom you choose to snipe?

Hypocrite.

jms

My software, and the GEnie software, does not quote; if I want to
quote someone, I have to *retype* the whole bloody quote.

I sometimes think I'd like to apply that to folks who quote a 432
line message, just to add "I agree!" at the end.

jms

Kelly: thanks. I had a good five year ride with HOUR 25, and though
there were some problems, enjoyed it thoroughly.

jms

"Joe's over-reaction to my statement makes me believe 'he doth
protest too much.'"

Nope. It's physics. The bigger the stink, the bigger the "ewwww."

jms