Daniel M. Upton <75442.1331@compuserve.com> asks:
> At what point does anything you said address my point that a
> standard that isn't divine must therefore be human? Otherwise what
> stops me from decreeing that I have a "right" to everything you
> own and backing up that claim with the fact that I am better
> armed than you?

"Otherwise what stops me from decreeing that I have a "right" to
everything you own and backing up that claim with the fact that I am
better armed than you? Rights must be granted by some force greater
than the individual. That leaves God or the state."

And, of course, this is exactly what happened on a regular basis
throughout human history until only the last couple of centuries.

If it was god doing this granting of rights...where was he for the
last six thousand years? Snoozing off in a corner somewhere?

No, the rights you speak of were won by humans, fighting for their
right not to be trammeled upon by greater forces, and bonding together
in common cause to make sure it doesn't happen again in this place.

While many of the "founding fathers" were believers, many others were
simply deists, or freethinkers...they didn't do what they did because
suddenly they figured god had given them the right, but because they
got pushed to the wall, and we were 3000 nautical miles away from King
George, and they in their very human way got fed up with being pushed
around and decided it was time to push back, and create a set of laws
that would prevent the tyrant from trying it again, or rising from
within.

Sorry, Daniel, we did this on our own. God's a credit jumper.

jms