Religion is actually a fairly common topic in the B5 series; it's
in "By Any Means Necessary," "The Parliament of Dreams," and several other
episodes, sometimes subtly, sometimes as a main theme. And we will be
dealing with cross-pollinization of religion across species and worlds,
and you will see some of the Centauri pantheon of gods.

jms

Let me make one point clear re: my attitudes toward religion. I'm
an atheist. Plain and simple. Unlike many who claim to be christians,
I've actually *read* the Bible. Cover to cover. *Twice*. It has some
very good writing, and some pretty awful writing. I tip my hat to ANYONE
who can get through Deuteronomy and Numbers without drowsing...while the
story of Job has some of the best writing imaginable.

That said...I have no desire or interest in bashing somebody's
religion as long as that somebody stays out of my face. In terms of my
writing, and my shows...if a writer wants to be honest, he has to look at
the full spectrum of human experience and treat it honestly. And though
I do not believe as some might, there is some human impulse that keeps
dragging us toward belief. It is part of the human process of trying to
solve the problem of life, the universe and everything (to quote Adams).
And you have to respect that, even if you don't agree with it. So I tend
to treat the subject with respect. Also with humor, on occasion, but
never to bash.

Fanatics of *any* stripe are, however, ripe targets.

jms

"...it is very rare to see a character on TV with religious beliefs
who *isn't* a fanatic."

Excuse me while I reach for my baseball bat. You've just struck a
nerve.

That is the biggest line of crap in the world, perpetuated by the
religious right and parrotted all over the place as though it were true,
and it's not. The television landscape, past and present, is *littered*
with religious-type people who are sympathetically portrayed. I don't
have my volume of TOTAL TELEVISION with me at the moment, but just off
the top of my head...there were bunches of prayerful folks in "Little
House on the Prarie," in "Father Murphy," in the "Father Dowling"
mysteries, in "Helltown"...not to mention the many, MANY times they
appear in dramatic series (we had about 5 sympathetic priest/reverend
characters per season in "Murder, She Wrote").

One can *say* that it is rare, but saying it doesn't make it so.
There have been religious people as stars of shows (I left out "Dr.
Quinn" with guest stars of this nature) and guest stars of shows, as
recurring characters and regular characters, in dramas and sitcoms....

Now: I've just named you a whole bunch of series, and once I get to
my library can name you a lot more. I for one would very much appreciate
it if you could name one -- just ONE -- series with an atheist as the
lead character. An avowed atheist, just as Father Dowling is an avowed
priest.

(Oh, yeah, and let's not forget the practicing catholics, protestants
and jews portrayed in "Picket Fences.")

Your serve.

jms

I didn't mention other (non-Western) religions because that wasn't
what we were discussing at the moment. But having said that...we do
plan on showcasing other religions (human) as well as western ones.

If you don't see much of it on other TV, here's why: because those
who complain most that, in a country with freedom of religion, their
group (evangelicals) isn't portrayed enough then turn around and raise
absolute hell the moment ANY other religion is portrayed on TV in an
even remotely sympathetic fashion. It took years for television to show
jews on TV; we're still working on the rest. If you show a Moslem or a
Zen monk on TV, you get hate mail accusing you of advancing the cause of
satanism...similar letters go to networks and sponsors and studios.

It's ironic that those who complain of persecution the loudest, ard
(are) generally the ones with the most power, and the quickest to
persecute someone else if it serves their purposes.

jms

I'm sorry, but there *are* accurate portrayals of christians and
other religious people on television. (And please don't cite TV Guide to
me as a reference on *anything*...they buy into the okeydoke just like
anybody else because they don't challenge the premise and investigate the
actual facts.) I would point out that David Kelley, producer of "Picket
Fences," just got an award from Catholics in Media for his portrayal of
that group of believers. (Does that group fit one's definition of a
group whose every, smallest, tiniest decision is based on the bible? It
probably doesn't, but that group is only a very small percentage of the
population, despite their volume.) Maybe the evangelicals don't
consider Catholics, and portrayals of catholics, as christians, but that
is an issue between you and them, not you and TV.

There's a sympathetic, realistic minister on "Dr. Quinn" as well as
on many other shows.

Now, you again cite the party line about christians and other
believers being portrayed as knife-weilding maniacs on TV. Please now
cite to me your specific examples. I have been willing to provide you
with specifics to the contrary. Let's see what evidence you have about
this fleet of maniac christians committing murders. Names and shows,
please.

See, what happens here is that people begin to fall for the Big Lie.
Someone says "X is true." And uncritical people accept this without
really stopping to investigate for themselves. They spread the statement
that X is true, until finally everyone's saying it...but it isn't true.
This is a *prime* example of this.

jms

How Orson Scott Card treats christians in his books, or how Marvel
comics does so, is a whole other discussion. It's also something of a
distraction. We're talking about TeeVee at the moment. And what usually
happens in these discussions is what is happening here...bogus statistics
are thrown out, and then when challenged, people turn to smoke and turn
the discussion to other areas. As for the Crusades...yes, christians did
a lot of killing in the name of religion. One might not like that, but
that also happens to be history. It happened. Even today, some looney
or other gets it into his head that god told him to go up to the belltower
and start shooting at people. People who commit suicide because they
think god told them to, or kill their families. They are, however, the
minority; the properly classified Lunatic Fringe. For the most part, we
seem to have evolved (if one can use that in a discussion of religion)
past organized activities to where only a few still pull this stuff.

I have no problem with christians, or moslems, or any other group
provided that they don't attempt to circumvent my own rights, and disallow
my own views within my own group. I have a number of friends who are
absolute, solid Born Agains. One of them is one of the country's most
regarded cult-busters. And we have *constant* go-arounds over the issues
of the day, from every possible perspective...a value, I think, in having
friends outside *SHOWBIZ*. It keeps you in touch with views you don't
necessarily agree with. Generally speaking, no one really changes the
other's beliefs, or lack thereof, but one does walk away with a better
understanding of the other positions involved.

The one thing that all of my Born Again friends have in common is
that they haven't shuttered their critical faculties; they believe that
they were given the facility to think logically by god for a *reason*,
and they apply that reason in equal measure to their faith. When one of
the apostles wanted to put his hand in Jesus's side to verify that he was
indeed up and walking around again, he wasn't told "No, forget it, just
take my word for it," he was allowed to do so. Because reasoning is part
of what makes us who and what we are, and sets us above the beasts of the
field. One of the greatest figures in the old testament is Solomon, who
was esteemed because of his *wisdom* as well as his faith. He thought
things through in a logical, critical fashion, and came up with solutions.
It's only uncritical thinking that I have a problem with.

And what this has to do with Babylon 5 is anyone's guess....

jms

Garibaldi is an agnostic. Ivanova is jewish. Sinclair was raised
catholic and underwent training as a Jesuit. Dr. Franklin is a
Foundationist. Catherine Sakai is buddhist.

jms

I didn't say, and didn't intend to imply, that as you say, religion
CAUSES insane actions. What it can do is to legitimize some actions, and
provoke others. As an illustration of the former: the Bible was used to
justify everything from the Crusades to slavery. Incorrectly, as many
believers are quick to point out today. In the case of the latter: where
generally speaking rock'n'roll does not encourage you to believe that you
are being spoken to by supernatural beings, or that you were born sinful,
and those more weird albums that do get into this stuff are generally not
credible or recognized or legitimate...religion comes replete with devils
and gods and is given fair legitimacy by society. If you have someone
with a fragile ego, someone who may be inclined toward hearing voices,
someone who is already a touch disturbed, such elements may contribute to
or exacerbate the problem. Cause the problem? No. Contribute? That's
another issue....

jms

Of course there are atheists in high command ranks; I was asked to
name those who had religions. Atheism, despite what some say, is not a
religion. As for the ambassadors...I didn't know what could really be
accomplished by naming their religions. If I said -- as happens to be
true, as we'll seen in an ep called "By Any Means" -- that G'Kar is a
follower of G'Quan...what would that mean to anyone?

jms

(Computer glitch in the above...the title is "By Any Means
Necessary.")

What kind of Jewish Ivanova is...is something she's trying to
resolve in her own head.

jms

"Have you been dodging the question of what Foundationism is?"

Of course I've been dodging it. What I can say for now is that it
has nothing to do with Asimov other than an echo in the name; the nature
of Foundationism is separate and distinct, dealing with a spiritual
Foundation of a particular nature. It's a new religion that has come up
in the time between the present and 2258.

jms

"I've yet to see proof for the nonexistence of god."

It is impossible to prove a negative, and it should not be the goal
of any discussion to try and force someone to either prove a negative, or
concede the validity of the opposing view. In other words...if you say,
"There are green penguins in the North Pole," it is not incumbent upon
me to prove that there are, in fact, no green penguins in the North
Pole. It is incumbent upon the person making the *statement* to prove
his assertion. If it cannot be proven, then it must be dismissed.

Much is made of the notion that faith is something that should not
require proof, that god objects to the idea of proving things. But this
position is not scripturally sound or based. Christ made the repeated
implication that he was there as the culmination of prophecy, that his
walking around was living proof of prophecy...so clearly he felt no
problem with offering proof *himself*, and offering himself AS proof, as
a living person. (I'm not taking a stance I accept theologically, only
arguing the logic behind doctrine itself.) When one of his disciples
refused to believe that it was he arisen from the grave, he didn't say,
"No, just take my word for it," he invited his disciple to stick his hand
in the wound. When Moses was called upon to prove his statements that he
was speaking to Pharoah on behalf of god, *he* certainly had no problem
with proving his statements, through the transformation of the staff and
the numerous plagues that followed.

The whole notion that religion must proceed ONLY on faith, and that
no proof can be required, is in *total* contradiction to what is actually
in the bible, as acted by the key figures in both the old and new
testaments. It is an assertion made only some time thereafter, when the
supposed proofs chronicled in the bible -- miracles, apparitions, the
freezing in place of the sun, frog-rains and open wounds -- ceased to make
regular appearances.

If Christ, asked to provide proof of his ressurrected self, has no
problem at all with providing such proof, I cannot understand why anyone
calling himself a Christian would have a problem with such a request.
But then, as Mark Twain said, "If Christ were alive today, there is one
thing he would not be: a Christian."

jms